Right, there is resistence to paid relays for some reason but I can only see it coming from the client side.. saying "relays can protect against spam" but without lightning it doesn't work. Doing it how? Paid is the only way to fend off multi-key bots.

For example, on NYE, a bot filled my entire relay, commenting to everyone Happy New Year, while the japan earthquake was in full force. Many japanese left my relay that day, and that's why I went to paid model. I was sick of these targeted attacks and lightning is the only way to prevent them. IP limits don't work, rate limiting doesn't work, spending tons of time coding detection is just an arms race and the bots always find a way to get through while regular users get penalty. The bots won't get through lightning verification though it will exhaust their funding even in small amounts.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

sure, yeah, what I'm saying that's a different thing

the client can create whatever flow they want to have users pay for relays, this is unrelated to the outbox model

just brainstorming here, like say i want to set just one inbox, to a relay i trust like nostr.wine. In the gossip settings it says for "inbox" that relays shouldn't require payment. The reason for this I think is simply that it's confusing for gossip clients, they don't know your inbox is paid. Maybe gossip can have an ["r", "wss://nostr.wine", "inbox-paid"] field or something like this? What is the downside of making paid a first class citizen? Would it not be easier to do that sooner, than having clients do multiple queries fired off to nip11 endpoint or nah?

it would just require that fetching from the relay requires ONLY paid npubs to appear in it or reject

in fact, currently for the most part they simply only accept publish with subscriber npubs, because no fucking clients support NIP-42

with NIP-44 and NIP-42 working, you can also make it so you can fetch kind 4/1059/1060 only for your own npub without opening a giant hole in the payment scheme as well

you might notice how many things become easier when clients fucking sign auth challenges

I finally understand what you were meaning here and I agree. Clients just need to be better about user feedback when gossiping. Like nostrudel, how it shows the relays that accepted the note, and the ones that didn't. If it detects that all the relays failed to accept it, there can be additional prompting like, this user only has relays with access control, visit the relay landing page? Stuff like that. Thanks for helping me think about this stuff. Sometimes I am way down in the relay trenches and I have to poke my head up and figure out what's goin on in the client world to make sure I can match to it. 🤙