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Currently having a discussion here about the right to die.

In this and almost all other discussions I see, others frame your answers in ways unintended and proceed to explain that you are wrong about a point you are not making.

I think a good practise is to really try to understand what the other side is AND is not saying.

It is fine to extend the argument to other points that you find relevant, but don't expect the other person to join you on that journey.

MSM often takes an extreme possible outcome from a proposition and tries to use that as a reason why the original argument is wrong.

I hope we on NOSTR don't end up being like MSM using that technique when we cannot win an argument on merit alone.

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Discussion

dvo 6mo ago

the straw man tactic is a sleazy move

mike 6mo ago

It might be sleazy, but most will resort to it when backed into a corner.

I have done it myself on occasion, but generally prefer to be less emotionally involved in an argument so am generally very willing to change my mind or admit I'm wrong.

I am a personality type INTP

dvo 6mo ago

I like how in schools for learning to debate properly, you have to learn to take both sides of an argument effectively. probably because it’s most efficient to debate the actual topic at hand, know your enemy

mike 6mo ago

Yes, I like that technique. I often attempt to understand and agree with the others view.

The Core vs Knots debate is one such instance.

Core are not wrong we will probably never succeed in removing spam from the blockchain, so they have a valid view that enabling it will reduce the impact of such spam.

I, however, prefer to continue the semi futile attempt to try to stop spam. This will not succeed, but I believe it will become more affective over time if we all work on improving the mechanisms used.

Abstract Equilibrium 6mo ago

"Why straw man when you can steel man?" 😏

Fuck MSM

hit with a hint of s 6mo ago

What is MSM?

mike 6mo ago

I had to ask that of others a few months ago 😂

Main Stream Media

hit with a hint of s 6mo ago

Lol,

I am not surprised I didn’t know

inpc 6mo ago

Mostly Sharks Man

Ray Buni 6mo ago

nostr:nprofile1qqs0wgf8etnayvkcs4c636fdvepy73jc9q2xlcln64srjdm5e98p8ncpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgqgkwaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8qunfd4skctnwv46qfgjt5f what do you think of the right to die and what is msm?

mike 6mo ago

In my day MSM stood for Microsoft Messenger 😂

jamw 6mo ago

Very true. Reframing / argument framing can manifest as a kind of conscious/sub-conscience bias but it’s often just fuelled by the human ego and desire to be right while you’re wrong. I also think many are just not aware they’re doing it. If you’re aware of it beforehand you can pre-empt it a little by first laying out an example that supports your point before taking it further. I still find it amazing that humans can actually communicate at all without fighting.

mike 6mo ago

We are programmed to fight each other to our survive each other 😂

𝕞𝕪𝕡𝕒𝕥𝕙𝕥𝕠𝕗𝕚𝕣𝕖 6mo ago

I think it's very subjective and a one answer doesn't fit all as usually these turn into death panels in main stream... ie restricted health care, prisoners fate etc

AU9913 6mo ago

I'm confused how you can even have a conversation about this topic bc of course we all have a right to die, there are dozens of ways to commit suicide that don't require anyone else's help.

So what is the actual conversation you're having? Is it actually that you're talking about someone else obligation to help you (doctor) or what?

mike 6mo ago

In the UK until recently, it was illegal to take your own life.

I’m not sure if the new law has passed fully, but when it does, I believe this will no longer be the case.

AU9913 6mo ago

Rights are given by God, not the government. Also, the law is pure nonsense, are they arresting the dead?

mike 6mo ago

They did arrest anybody that attempted and failed.

The ones that succeeded evaded capture.

Sleventy3 6mo ago

Gatekeepers are 99.99% wrong. If we could let people do what they want it would eliminate mostly all arbitrary conflict.

Unless your decisions cause harm or takes away another's agency, do you bro.

mike 6mo ago

This should be the primary concept of "laws" and edge cases should never be allowed to abuse that prime directive.

Sleventy3 6mo ago

Our government is to big not to quibble about minor details. We've created a 'dystopian' environment where every moron has a right to be coddled. So we end up massaging idiotic idealisms.

ImportantVideos 6mo ago

Well that’s probable the wrong question to have a a discussion, maybe rephrase it?

Because by all means take my right to die away, I’ll live forever no problem.

Z4 Explorer 6mo ago

I remember reading about a Buddhist monk, he was in 90's he felt he had experienced all there was in his life. So he decided he wanted to die. He sat and didn't eat or drink for like 9 days. And then he died.

If someone doesn't want to live then they should stand by what they believe and die peacefully. Unfortunately most people who want to die don't want to take the responsibility of dieing and palm it off on someone else. And then the person who actually directly kills will have to live with it. We live in a society that doesn't encourage individual responsibility.

No one should be allowed to directly kill another person. If someone really wants to die, then we should support their decision to die. And we shouldn't be allowed to force feed anyone, or keep them alive without their consent. But we shouldn't be allowed to directly kill them with an injection or any other method.

If someone wants to speed up their death, then there are plenty of ways to accelerate the process rather than not eating/drinking, if 9 days is too long.

I heard 75% of UK public support assisted death. Have UK public lost their mind!?! Surely the poll is a fabrication.

I predict the recent bill for assisted dieing won't become law. And should never ever become law.

mike 6mo ago

I would support the bill, I wasn’t asked, but would be happy if it did.

If it doesn’t I’ll keep Dignitas on speed dial.

If I need to take my own life due to Alzheimer’s in the distant future. I hope I won’t need assistance, but would be comforted to know it would be available.

Z4 Explorer 6mo ago

I gave up on conventional western medicine a long time ago. A few years ago, I knew if I didn't make changes in my life, I would be at the mercy of the doctors.

Take life into your own hands. Don't rely on conventional western medicine. Dont get illnesses like Alzheimers. Don't wait to get ill. Anyone who is over 40 will start to experience warning signs that lead to bad health. Don't ignore these signs. Stop being lazy and palm off your health to a third party, doctor, health professional. Take responsibility for your own life.

Not dealing with one problem causes another problem, which causes another problem, and then all of a sudden we are justifying killing each other.

Fix the problem upstream. If we did then we wouldn't even be contemplating having these absolutely absurd insane debates. Because these health issues into old age wouldn't exist!

mike 6mo ago

You did this:

It's fine, I appreciate you want to make a point. But it's not relevant to the discussion, nor is it relevant to me:

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Z4 Explorer 6mo ago

The point I made is the primary reason I would never support assisting dieing. We trying fix problems that should have been solved many steps ago.

You are looking too closely at the problem, unable to see the real issue at hand. Its a sensitive issue with lots of emotion which makes it even harder to take a step back, especially if you've lost love ones that have suffered. I do get it.

Make assisting dieing law solves nothing and causes more problems.

mike 6mo ago

Still not what I’m talking about, but I appreciate your views.

Z4 Explorer 6mo ago

We can only go so far online.

At some point in the future I will come to meetups, hopefully see you in person, will share my views with you further.

We will never agree on everything we believe, but even with disagreements we have much more in common than not.

We all have alot offer each other.

mike 6mo ago

See you IRL sometime 🫡