Rejection of religion isn't rejection of faith. One can be an atheist who believes in the strength of encryption, for example, but their belief is just that: a belief. There is no proof that P ≠ NP, and thus actions done with that underpinning are led by faith. Human action and growth have to be driven by faith in something; otherwise, we wouldn't have the will to do anything.

What rejection of religion is is a denial of a human construct of control that, regardless of how benevolent and pure its foundation claims to be, has without fail been used to subjugate and divide humanity. Religion can be useful at an individual, self-actualizing level, but that utility breaks down and is higly likely to become corrupted at a societal one.

Humans are inherently moral and driven to act in their self-interest, which, when taken to its maximum, is actually a collective interest. Every day we evolve to work and fight with one another to reach a point of pure oneness; it's just a volatile path to get there. There doesn't need to be a "God" to tell us this; we're all a sliver of the universe, a realization of its consciousness, part of a greater whole, and the crowning of a higher class of entity denies us the agency to live that reality to its fullest.

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I think it feels good to have faith in something. That doesn't need to be a religion.

🤝

Faith > Religion

10000000%

Rejection of religion as a whole is called throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

No religion has survived the distortive process of history. We're just playing a giant game of telephone. The fact that every religion has all sorts of distortions and baggage does not preclude it from also containing core spiritual truths or having originated as a result of a genuine spiritually significant occurrence.

Selective rejection of aspects of each religion in a buffet style based on consistency with science and with one another, however, is ideal, so long as the selection process is executed well. Most people would never study all religions and of those who would, many fail to execute the selection process well.

Humans are inherently required to satisfy the demands of our biological vulnerabilities. This does not make us inherently moral. We are here to choose to polarize in one of two directions: service to others or service to the self.

Service to others does not preclude serving one's own self. Inventing the wheel to serve yourself and then sharing that invention with others counts for both, but a lot of others use the wheel, making that act of sharing vastly more weighty than the service to the self component of that action.

Also, God's not some cosmic bearded dude who tells us anything. God is literally everything. Spinoza was on point about that.

Very on point, especially on the religious buffet and Spinoza; I also like the moral flywheel imagery of self-first, then others.

I do believe despite our need to help ourselves we are inherently moral. The lack of complete understanding that there is more that exists outside of and past our own lives is what causes us to think in a zero-sum way, making us focus on either the self of the other, when they are in fact one in the same. It's more mindset and philosophy that get us to that level of enlightenment, but that is obviously held back (though, sometimes propelled) primarily by our own egos and immediate physical needs.

I would love to get your take on the things I share in the YouTube video linked in my NOSTR profile.

I think you might appreciate how I connect dots between science and religion.

If you enjoy Graham Hancock’s tv show Ancient Apocalypse, you’ll probably love this. In fact Graham was the guest on this show 2 episodes before me.

As a teaser, my speculation on sarcophagi is pretty much confirmed at this point. ⚰️✅

That show was recorded 3 months ago. I put the puzzle pieces together in the meantime.

That's awesome; I'll definitely check your stuff out!

I have faith in love

Beauty will save the world - Doestoevsky

Amen.

If humans are all moral and don't need a God to be the standard, you can't say that anything anyone has ever done is immoral or evil. This is a lot of words to basically say nothing.

Immorality and evil is subjective, so yes, you are correct. All humans act in a way they believe is good, whether most agree or not is up to everyone else. Dictating what is right and wrong is exactly what gets us to a point of corruption down the line, because now you have a "moral high ground" to defend any action. If you reject having a higher king you give yourself agency to parse and decide for yourself what is right and wrong. That can be scary, but ultimately what an individual and human collective decides is right and wrong should be up to them.

History also shows that if something is seen as wrong, it will be attacked, and whatever leads to the best outcome for all will typically win out. Nazism, for example, was set to fail because it's ideological and philosophical foundation is more harmful than helpful for humanity as a whole and was acted out on a zero-sum basis. The values in religion are beautiful because they paint the incentives of cooperation in a digestible way, but they innately exist and don't require a "God" to be true. Humans created that higher class to justify their control over others at scale.

I also think God is a fine thing to believe in; it's most definitely better than the state, politics, materialism, what have you. Whatever encourages unity and cooperation is cool with me; religion just has traits and a history that show it's a corruptable solution.

Nazism didn't fail bc it caused more harm, it failed bc they were fighting a war on multiple fronts. History shows several empires that caused more harm but had power so they persisted.

Also how can you say Nazism was harmful if everything is subjective?

To be clear, I agree that fighting occurs when there are differences in where people draw the lines of truth and morality. But if you say there is none, then you can't ever say something is wrong, and then at that point, what are we even talking about? There's no utopia out there where people all just hold hands and love each other bc it's better for the species

Again, it's up to people to decide what is right and wrong and act on it; I'm merely pointing out that you don't have to look up to some higher entity to allow you to do so or dictate the dichotomy. If the whole world thought murdering people was right, they would act on that and it would be seen as normal, but it wouldn't win out as an ideology for humanity over time as it leaves the world with less people working together. The outcomes over the long-run realize what was "right" and "wrong."

And I also don't believe in utopia (at least not in this life) but humanity trends towards more and more cooperation despite the pain along the way. As physical beings, we don't have the foresight or understanding to allow our ego to dissolve and stop focusing highly on our individual existence, but very very slowly we're making our way there.

Yet those empires fell. Sure, you can pick apart all the details and say this or that as to why Nazism fell, bht I'm not arguing for the reason it fell; I'm saying it was doomed to fail from the start because it was not as effective at unify humanity in the long-run.

And me saying it's harmful is my opinion, and there were obviously people who thought otherwise. Both sides are part of it being subjective.

I’m personally aligned with Thomas Jefferson on this topic, sounds like you might be somewhat too

I'm not familiar with his ideas on it; do you have a good reference?

The Smithsonian edition of the Jefferson Bible has a whole ~40pg section on his ideas and the history around separation of church and state at the beginning. If you want the TLDR tho you can probably get it thru the AI gods or on Wikipedia

What people often get wrong about faith is that it's not about "what", but "whom" you believe in. Faith entrusts the self to a creator, savior, and comforter. The doctrines are only downstream from the person.

Pantheism is incoherent because it fails to provide a framework for morality, since All is One. You have to accept that our experience is a meaningless fiction with no relevance to our transcendent selves except to reach maturity through the accumulation of experience.

I can agree with the experience point but not entirely with the "what" vs "whom" point. I would argue that the "whom" is the universe, and we each exist essentialy as a "emotions" or "thoughts" of that universe (as a rough comparison). Just like we have our own emotions and thoughts (along with actions, etc., which is where the comparison gets more abstract) that make us who we are, we exist as the same thing in relation to the universe. The galaxies, stars, planets, etc. all serve relatively as "organs", "appendages", and the rest of our "body" that don't necessarily have consciousness, but are essential to "our" existence. The morality arises from the fact that we don't want to harm "ourselves" and ultimately want to maximize the "self," but as an imperfect entity, the best that can be done is always to try and iterate on that idea and understanding of what is "right" and "wrong," just as humans do and have done ("ourselves" and "self" here meaning the universe, or more broadly "God").

The "whom" that is looked up to would also have to know where it came from and exist as an absolute, final "truth" in order to actually claim it has some sort of objective moral framework, which simply can't be done, at least at the human level of understanding. I see morality as more of a dynamic system of growth that has some broadly accepted foundations, but it's not absolute. In line with this, I don't claim that the universe is itself a final truth, rather that it is a perfectly imperfect entity that is part of a greater whole, just like humans, and so on ad infinitum.

Nicely articulated thoughts. I agree with your note.

I’m of the opinion that humans have no clue what’s happening at the incomprehensibly large scale of the universe. Likewise with the building blocks of the universe (smallest scale).

I’m open to all possibilities but I feel with a high degree of conviction that human beings did not figure out the mysteries of creation and existence as many religions claim. I don’t think it is possible for us to do so, try as we might. In agreement that religion is a human construct that is prone to (or was created for) corruption and exploitation at scale.

I accept the uncertainty around creation and existence and feel profoundly lucky to exist. Life is going to take its course and I think things will unfold as they should. I trust the primordial process of life and death and don’t need feel-good stories to cope.

Agreed! Seeing that nothing matters or can be determined to be 100% true is oddly an incredibly freeing frame, and trying to add some level of greater understanding restricts us from being maximally "free" to experience and iterate. We don't know and probably can't know why life, or anything in general, exists, so might as well try to make the best of it and leave it better than we found it.