I liked these nostr clients better when we couldn't see all the zap amounts, sats just showed up and things werent about a score.
We dont want randos knowing what just got sent to our hot wallets. This type of data could become a serious risk in meatspace at larger scales.
Are there provisions for the silent zap? I know “tipping” from profile doesn’t show. 🐶🐾❓
Profile zaps dont, but from what I can tell, most zaps are done through notes.
Just feel that it encourages celebrities. Very fiat minded imo
I can see that 🤔
Agree, but hard to think of anything to satisfy both sides! If we had an option to “hide” amount or number of zaps, or both, then it still would not solve the problem. Celebs can easily keep it open. 🐶🐾🤔
Exactly. I think it just needs to get removed. Nostr has taken several steps forward, we can take one back for the better.
Yes, me thinks that it is a huge surface for abuse! Stalking and harassment for zaps also 🐶🐾🫡
What if you personally got notifications with amounts but it wasnt public? That seems to be the right approach.
Yes, that would work great! We should probably allow for anon tips/zaps. 🐶🐾🫡
Thanks for 77, that was not anon 😂🐶🐾🫡
Just proving my point 🤙
The whole point of zaps are that they create nostr notes; if you want to send sats with no nostr footprint just use regular bolt11
Creating an invoice and sharing it is to labor intensive. Theres got to be a way to zap without sharing the data with everyone. Wouldnt that save on server space as well? Less notes.
Encryption? Same as DMs are done now. 🐶🐾🫡
you just need a mechanism to exchange payment information, and we already have that with with LNURL and Bolt12.
This doesn't need anything new, it's just a matter of how people choose to use these tools. If you don't want to use zaps (LNURL with nostr notes) just use LNURL/Bolt12.
I dont understand why you cant add a zap button on the note but it just send anon to you like if you did it through the profile?
you can, just a matter of your client doing it that way
Exactly, im just casting my vote.
no votes required, I just zapped you 100 sats anon and doing another 100 sats without zap so no nostr event shows up
Its anon for you but not the receiver or the public. Still shows I got sats on the note.
not the second one I sent you
I sent 200 sats, the note shows 100.
Indeed but did you tap the lightning bolt on the note to do that or go through my profile?
the note
Do explain?
Thats the way it should be for all of them. No numbers on the zaps ⚡️
it's up to the sender, it's ok to have options
the receiver must explicitly support zaps
Again if others can do it and some choose not to, it corrupts the even playing field. Some will go for clout and others will be shunned away by algorithms and filters for not having zaps turned on.
Clout chasing is a fiat illness. If people can brag about their sats stack today through social media, they will. Celebrities will take over and this will be no fun anymore. Just think of the thirst traps my friend.
Clout chasing predates fiat by millennia.
The beautiful thing is that nostr permits for segregated networks; it doesn’t need to operate under a single, intertwined feed and you can easily and freely opt-out from content/people you don’t want to interact with.
This is my fear. Plebs get left behind simply because we don’t carry celebrity status. Although I personally wouldn’t give a dime to some grifter celeb on here, I wonder if there are others like me.
If that celeb brings value (education, entertainment, etc.) they should be equally rewarded by zaps, not the algo ! The bar for zaps will definitely rise, but such is life. 🐶🐾🫡
Of course they do, just not publicly. This is like posting all of your earnings that came into your bank account for services on social media.
Agreed! 🐶🐾🫡
Maybe one exception, for legitimate public charities that run a fundraising operations on nostr. This could be a good thing! 🐶🐾🫡
But i didn’t get one
Add an option to create a one time only pubkey for anonymous zaps.
We also need this feature for private DMs.
Yes indeed!
How do you keep track of your DMs? For that you need to remember your other privkeys.
Derive them (using a hardened derivation path so that others can't derive the same path).
True but at scale zapping is going to look very different. If Nostr has 100M people on it I can assure you Bitcoin will be on an unstoppable tear.
Example: Bitcoiner wants to aid someone in developing Bitcoin economy and zaps him $200 worth of sats. That could potentially put his life in danger. His neighbors may start harrasing him for money.
Send it direct to their address rather than zapping a note. Problem solved.
Indeed, however it doesnt prevent sats giveaways and influencers from draining the life out of this app as well. Those zaps numbers can be fabricated by zapping yourself from an alt account. Its meaningless except for stroking your own ego.
Yes I warned of that earlier when someone said zaps should be anonymous.
You can’t stop this entirely, however the human verification project by #[3] is the kind of thing that will allow people to see through this bullshit.
No reason that can’t keep people pseudonymous, people can still run alts, they just can’t create fake armies of crap because nobody will trust those zaps.
Ill take zaps from anyone that will send them, its just when users zap someone for good content, it doesnt need to be a public display of bragging rights. Bad incentives.
Do you expect a $100 bottle of wine is better than a $10 bottle?
You do right?
Is there anything stopping you from enjoying the $10 bottle more than the $100 bottle?
No.
Price is merely a signal. The value zapped to a post is indicative of how the market values it, it doesn’t provide a qualitative assessment of the note merely a financial representation of consumers.
And a easy to find, publicly listed target on your head for taxes or wrench attacks
Stand out the front of your local liquor store and target the blokes coming out with $100 bottles of wine then..
Not saying this won’t happen but if I wanted to find wealthy people to attack, https://zaplife.lol would not be my first port of call.
Nostr with 100M users would be regular people, like on facebook, connected with friends, family, kids at school, ex wives, not to mention institutions we dont want to have that info like governments, etc.
And Bitcoin is well in to 6-figures, there is literally millions times more content on nostr available than today, pretty much every fiat system will be available on nostr/Lightning at that scale and it will be government’s biggest enemy in the world.
Do you think people are going to spray Sats around like they do today with Nostr at 100M Users?
It wont be govs biggest enemy if we put all the financial data on a pretty spreadsheet for them and post it in their face.
It’s a fair point. There are both public and private channels available as zaps and tips.
Current implementation of zaps is public.
I think zaps are intended to be a very small quantum and are likely to become a single tap hot button.
There will probably be something slightly different that requires a bit more confirmation and privacy for larger transactions and purchases. This would be more familiar to people.
Nothing like zaps exists anywhere else.
Thats true it is unique to here. I fear people wont differentiate between the two and accidentally do more harm than good. A lot!
It’s very early, not even a couple of weeks since zaps went live.
There will be some strange edge cases, but on the whole I think ⚡️ encourages better mainstream behaviour online. I think this is achieved in very subtle but powerful ways that are not immediately obvious.
There will of course be vice and bad things, but I think that stuff will be visible. Nostr isn’t a place for hiding things, there are many copies of every event and they are held in many different places with different people.
Censorship resistance is a very different thing to privacy. Nostr is an inherently open forum it’s many to many, you have to work very hard to shoot for privacy.
People can even enter your pubkey and see your worldview and your DM meta data. Some of this will probably get tightened up.
But the default assumption for nostr is that everything you do is spread far and wide.
Fair criticism, number of likes/repost/shares/zaps should not dictate the quality content/notes. There shall be way to maintain privacy of your actions performed on nostr 🤙
We will find the way. Its just through trial and error. I just want to raise red flags for people to weigh the pros and cons. Seems like mostly cons to me at this point.
Dropping a link here if it works. Maybe get some discussion ?
https://iris.to/post/note12xfaqyqyz94n5kq6r032rwnl9p7zrz6k3khrxvcwl37095hg0plqf9dqvs
You need to enable zaps if you don't want to. The receiving wallet decides whether it's a zap or not.
Understood. We should change a zap to being anon payments send directly to the user without notifying the world. I think thats bad opsec and a bad feature for bitcoiners to help teach new folks about lightning.
if the data is available on the protocol level, not much we can do
That’s exactly what other chat about.. turns into competition / score… & takes away from value instead of giving value
Friendly reminder for fellow nostriches (nostr users).
Currently, Zaps (NIP-57) is always public so anyone can see it easily like how https://zaplife.lol do. Cool right? Maybe yes, or not.
#[0]
If you don't want to be seen then you need to do regular lightning tip instead. You can visit user profile and copy their LN address to your LN wallet and send sats from there. Even the receiver won't know who are the sender.
Why zaps?
Well, it gives us the benefit of positive encouragement. Probably, People will tend to do more positive or interesting things because of zaps have economic value instead of cheap likes.
#[1]
Zaps also can be useful for crowdfunding activity such as how our nostr devs got many support from fellow nostriches. It gives us the transparency how zaps can be used positively.
#[2]
Why not zaps?
In some cases, people need their privacy for their money activity. You want to give a donation to certain people (Julian Assange, Repressed Minority, Sex Worker, etc.) or community (e.g. Canada Freedom Truck Convoy) but your country or other people won't like it or judge your actions if they know we do that. Well, we probably better send regular tip instead.
#[3]
Finally, Happy zaps 🫂⚡
