Nostr Web Client

of course there is a record of the customer on an exchange buying any asset from a kyc exchange. what I am saying is that the asset itself can be obfuscated with methods (using xmr atomic swaps is an option) to remove traceability of the asset and can be spent or sold as the user wishes as a non-kyc asset. there is always a traceable onboarding aspect of any asset, unless you buy with cash. That goes for monero too. The data set on the bitcoin blockchain is massive despite being completely transparent. once traceability is severed. the user can hide in plan sight. monero on the other hand, on-boarding and off-boarding can be incrimanating with such a small data set and niche use case. The only reason to use it over btc, is for illegal drugs, firearms, and sex trafficking/prostitution. there is always plausible deniability to obfuscated btc transactions. plus there is a whole can of worms with auditing and code bugs with a small network having hardforks (its strength can be its down fall as a network). there is also the fact that the data storage to make it private is extremely blotted compared to btc. If the first mover was monero and it had the same level of adoption. Running a personal node would not be possible for most people. which would doom the monero network with centralization. Privacy improvements are best on 2nd layer protocols.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

Ok, well I was just being clear that KYC and forward privacy are two different things because it read like you were conflating them. And again, almost no users obfuscate their Bitcoin.

Doesn't matter how massive the data is. We have computers now. All of that history is "flattened" and can easily be parsed by chain analysis companies especially when they have access to data sets from large exchanges and government bodies.

I don't know if you're being funny about the "illegal drugs, firearms, sex trafficking, prostitution" part. Because that's exactly what they accused Bitcoin of in the past and will also accuse self-custodial Bitcoin users of in the future too. Except in that case it's easier to prove what it was used for and tie to someone (correctly and incorrectly i.e. Roman Sterlingov).

Now you're drifting into hypotheticals about auditability and scalability that have nothing to do with the original topic; privacy.

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His_Name_Was_Robert_Paulson 1y ago

"almost no users obfuscate their bitcoin". well almost no users, use monero....

Your argument is not that xmr is better, but that humans are to lazy and dumb to be able to use privacy tools outside a main chains protocol. If XMR had any value over BTC, then the free market would be reflecting that. you want to know the ultimate private currancy...paper fiat...

BTC is up over 450% in the last 5 years. XMR is up 80ish percent. clearly people are using obfuscation tools, because the market is reflecting it gives zero shits about the main chain privacy of monero or any other privacy coin. the only use case for monero is atomic swapping in and out of for more obfuscation. which i think the 20k transactions that are performed on xmr chain can reflect

Don't marry your coins bro....its money and its a soft one

oh yeah, joke or not about the drug and firearms comment. reality is, that's what law enforcement and auditors will jump to if they know you own it. sad reality.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

Say what you will, but it's indisputably easier for lazier/unskilled users and even skilled users to stay private with Monero than Bitcoin. It is better in that sense and in the sense that it is actually private (not merely obfuscation).

White markets aren't free markets. They're permissioned. So whenever you flash centralized ledger gambling/speculation price charts it is entirely irrelevant for Bitcoins value prop and security architecture.

Yes, paper cash is great privacy, but is irrelevant since we're talking about digital currencies. I can't send or receive physical cash digitally.

You're accusing me of "marrying my coins" as if you aren't just as married to yours. Pot meet kettle.

Yea and that same drug and firearm comment is what they're going to use against any self-custodial coinjoining Bitcoiners. No difference in rhetoric if it is still a real threat to them. If they're not saying that anymore you should be wondering why.