Nostr

very few relays support NIP-29 at the moment, see https://api.nostr.watch/v1/nip/29

- 0xchat wss://groups.0xchat.com

- Highlighter wss://relay.highlighter.com

- Groups wss://relay.groups.nip29.com

- fiatjaf's test relay wss://groups.fiatjaf.com

the NIP requires support from the relay to implement admin, access control, migrating groups, etc. would be cool if one can spin relay.tools relays to host their groups or add group support to their existing relays.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

I have a very similar goal and a service like Relay.tools has almost everything already to make groups on relays happen. And it works.

NIP-29, however, overcomplicates everything by not having a 1:1 relaytionship with the group and copy pasting big-tech UX (Telegram etc...) that doesn't make sense on Nostr. None of the current apps work or have a clear goal. So why would relay services bother?

More on this here: nostr:naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzp22rfmsktmgpk2rtan7zwu00zuzax5maq5dnsu5g3xxvqr2u3pd7qyt8wumn8ghj7mnfv4kzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qq0wd5k6urvv4ch2etnw35k7mnnuquu5l

I might be Naive Nieling this, but I wasted a lot of time believing too much about the NIP-29 hype without checking its assumptions.

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Discussion

hodlbod 1y ago

nostr:nprofile1qyd8wumn8ghj7urewfsk66ty9enxjct5dfskvtnrdakj7qghwaehxw309an8yetwwvhxummnw3erztnrdakj7qgcwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyt8wumn8ghj7emjv4jkuum0w4kzuumsv93k2tcqypl62m6ad932k83u6sjwwkxrqq4cve0hkrvdem5la83g34m4rtqegk5xps3 I'm woth Niel on this one, will shortly be releasing a client that does relay based groups without nip 29.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

What are the events kinds and spec behind the chat messages in a space (i.e. relay)?

hodlbod 1y ago

WIP here: https://github.com/coracle-social/nips/blob/relay-chat/xx.md

Very WIP

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

¡Muchas Gracias!

verbiricha 1y ago

after reading Niel's article and https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1495 I tend to agree with your points, ideally we have simple groups without the need for explicit support from relays or introducing redundant kinds. I will keep an eye on your feeds since I'm also working on this type of client.

cloud fodder 1y ago

I am on a similar page to neil and hodlbod on this one. I think groups or communities can be done with 'regular' relays with auth (arguably already is being done).. nip29 from my perspective has relay side complication, and its unclear to me that what it accomplishes is any different than using a different kind# so regular clients dont repost those notes.

super excited to hear about new clients coming up!! 🎉 i will do everything i can to support them. this is why i pushed hard to get auth going, it seemed to be a missing piece of the puzzle for more community, & dms .. if nip29 does gain traction/adoption/demand i will re-assess priorities for relay.tools at that time.

hodlbod 1y ago

Awesome, excited to hear it. By the way, I am no longer working on reconciling nip 29 with relay-based groups, instead I'm creating a new NIP that will hopefully serve the purpose: https://github.com/coracle-social/nips/blob/relay-chat/xx.md. The NIP is very much a WIP, lots of the hard problems with detecting relay membership still need to be solved.

If you're interested in pooling resources, my client is here: https://github.com/coracle-social/flotilla

Silberengel 1y ago

I agree. If relay.tools had better threading, in the viewer, I'd just use that. Even better, if I could see the three GC relays and Christpill as 4 sections in a forum-style client or something.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn is building exactly that

Silberengel 1y ago

Would be a relief. I'm tired of all of the fancy encryption-admin stuff.

Just the feed, please.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

Forum **and Chat** btw 🔥

So pumped for this.

RandalM 1y ago

What's he building, up to now?

hodlbod 1y ago

🫡 https://github.com/coracle-social/flotilla

nostr:nprofile1qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpzfmhxue69uhkummnw3eryvfwvdhk6tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpzdmhxue69uhhwmm59e6hg7r09ehkuef0qqs8eseg5zxak2hal8umuaa7laxgxjyll9uhyxp86c522shn9gj8crs5ggk3z I'm planning to release a relay-specific version of flotilla, maybe it could serve as a front-end for relay.tools relays.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

Forces are joining 💪

cloud fodder 1y ago

🐳🐳🐳 nice, omw to the git now

hodlbod 1y ago

PRs are open, there's a list of tasks in the readme, lemme know if you want to grab one

MichaelJ 1y ago

Are the issues a good place to start? I'm interested in helping to make the single-relay version a reality so I can use it with my dev team.

What is highest priority in that domain?

hodlbod 1y ago

Sweet! I've moved the to-do list to github issues: https://github.com/coracle-social/flotilla/issues

Feel free to grab any task marked "good first issue". There's also an issue for "single relay version": https://github.com/coracle-social/flotilla/issues/5

Thanks!

Silberengel 1y ago

We were getting desperate and thinking about piping into Discord, or something, so it'd be nice to have a Nostr client.