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Jack Spirko 2y ago

Maxis who claim "real estate is a shit coin" and such, live in a fantasy world. There has never been a time in civilization where every family "owned" a home, rentals are a constant in civilization.

Bitcoin won't change that you need dilithium crystals, transporters and replicators to change that.

So long as people want to rent homes, there is a business model in being a land lord. And quite a good one.

The reality here is the same shit over and over, typical pattern. Those that don't want to learn how to do a thing, come up with why the thing is "bad". It is retarded and it makes you look like a retard to anyone who is informed on the matter.

Same shit when I teach say gardening for preppers and some dipstick says, "but when the shit hits the fan the zombies are just going to see me as a target and steal my tomatoes".

Just shut up and say I don't want to grow a garden (invest in real estate) because it is too complicated for what I want in my life. Then I will respect you, but using ignorance as a shield makes you look like a fuckin idiot.

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👊

Can be applied to so many narratives.

Cheers.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

Yep!

Deleted Account 2y ago

Found the guy with real estate

Jack Spirko 2y ago

LOL you likely are a renter.

serenitys forge 2y ago

I'm a renter and i still think real estate is a better bet.

Better to have something that is "mine" rather than face the threat of eviction if my landlord decides to sell up.

Its never a good idea to be beholden to someone else.

As for the garden thing, I'd rather have something to defend that could feed me, and give me something to trade than a bucket of beans I can only do so much with.

Get a 5 gallon bucket and fill it up with .22LR ammunition, drop in a couple of oxygen absorbers and then close the lid and put it in your closet until you need "cash" to barter with. Bullets, beans and butt wipes will always be in demand. ;)

Jack Spirko 2y ago

You only have a plan for failure and hence it will fail.

Got it! Tomatoes are the shitcoin, not real-estate

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

I agree that individuals should own real estate, not the government.

But there is a distortion in the price. It's a shitcoin as much as it is a store of value, exclude the usability.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

"X property is over valued so, I'm right" is what you just said.

I have properties I have held and rented for over 10 years. I don't care if their current value is over valued, I care that my cash flow is tax free, my equity is safe and my out of pocket into these investments is a fraction of the value even if you were to cut it in half.

This is the problem with brain washed maxis (I btw consider myself a maxi just a thinking one). You likely read my post as "real estate is better than bitcoin" it isn't what I said and I won't bother trying to explain what you clearly don't wish to understand.

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

No, I agree with you. I don't oppose Maxi owns real estate or stocks. Maxi can run companies. It is all up to you.

Real estate has usability so that it brings you Bitcoin flow.

However, it is also true that a part of real estate which for store of value is shitcoin.

from my perspective it's a timing thing

of course there will be landlords earning sats flow post hyperbitcoinization but as it currently stands pretty much all investment real estate is overvalued when priced in bitcoin - this is because it is priced as a store of value due to shitty money and poor alternatives - this store of value premium on real estate should significantly reduce as more people choose bitcoin instead

additionally, investment real estate carries significant jurisdictional risk that bitcoin does not, during the covid response NY regulators essentially socialized all apartments in NYC by closing eviction courts, one of the most valuable investment real estate markets in the world decimated overnight

Jack Spirko 2y ago

Every investment has trade offs and most people lose their asses in all of them due to lack of knowledge or more often discipline.

The point here isn't "you should invest in real estate" it is you likely shouldn't talk shit about an investment you don't understand.

(Note that is not specifically directed at you Odell it is a generic statement to the issue.)

The reality is a ton of plebs are young, that is good because they are in early on the best investment of all time. It is also bad as to as real world life experience goes many still have milk on their mouths. I hear stupid shit like, (but what about property taxes and muh insurances).

Tenants pay property taxes, insurance, maintenance costs, they pay for EVERYTHING. Banks provide the capital and the investor takes the risk but gains tax free (mostly) cash flow and equity gain with OPM.

As to jurisdictional risk, I'll start with I would not own a rental in a jurisdiction I would not personally live in. That itself is massive mitigation. I also target properties just high enough in value that when a recession hits there is a key demo to "move down" into them.

Last I will end with I do own real property, I do own metals, I do own bitcoin. I find most people telling me I am doing it wrong and should be "aLL iN oN mUh BiTcOiN" don't even have a full coin. They also have no real property, tend to be renters themselves, work a job, have no real investment success, have. never built a business.

They "mine fiat" and invest in Bitcoin and keep at it. Nothing wrong with that if that is all you want in life.

One of my laws of life is you should never take advice from anyone on anything they have yet to have proven themselves competent at.

I am glad plebs DCA 5 dollars a day or whatever, they should keep doing it, but spouting off about things they don't even half way understand. I take advice about bitcoin from those successful with bitcoin, which isn't hard, buy it and don't sell it. I take advice on business from successful entrepreneurs. I take advice on real estate from people that at least OWN A DAMN house or two.

Bitcoin god willing may end banks as we know them, it will not though end rental properties, entrepreneurship, etc.

Zaikaboy 2y ago

The UK economy is backed by a housing bubble so over inflated you can hear it screaming. I have owned a house or two, I have owned gold, I am now all in on btc. Not because of influencers or even sound advice but because, after extensive research (and a bankruptcy), I decided that the only thing that will be left standing of any real value is BITCOIN.

I don't know what life is like to live in the states but if the UK (51st state IMHO) is anything to go by, then I'd sell both my livers and invest it in btc!

A caveat to just holding is, spend and replace. 🐇😜❤

Brunswick 2y ago

Multiple real-estate holder, security holder, self employed business owner, married father of eight.

I HODL anything I can spare, but only what I can spare.

100satsaday 2y ago

Real estate is quite decentralized like no central distributor and also somewhat scarce. It is not shitcoin to me.

I agree with you that renting will always be a business model but most of todays income in real estate comes from asset appreciation. THAT is a shitcoin. The only reason homes appreciate in value today is because real estate has become a proxy store of value. Under a bitcoin standard, all the equity sitting in real estate to preserve purchasing power gets sucked out and values will drop dramatically and continue down over time. Cash flowing real estate is a good business, real estate investing for appreciation is a shitcoin.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

No your entire premise is wrong. The most valuable thing we get from real estate is tax free cash flow.

Yo man, I said cash flowing real estate is a good business. Why you yelling back at me what I said?

Do you disagree that equity is stored in real estate to preserve purchasing power?

We bought 80 acres of rural mountain valley land during the height of the pandemic. At less than $400 per acre, it was a helluva deal and even if I don't improve the land, I can easily quadruple my investment.

Toxic Bitcoiner 2y ago

It’s a shitcoin because of its massive, undue monetary premium that Bitcoin will eat. Houses are bad money. Nobody is saying houses won’t have value. Nobody is saying there won’t be landlords and renters. Stop getting so upset over your imaginary Strawmans.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

Actually that is exactly what they are saying.

Toxic Bitcoiner 2y ago

Who? If they exist, then yes they’re wrong. But you made the mistake of overcompensating in the opposite direction. Real estate IS a shitcoin, but because of its extreme leverage, massive undue monetary premium, and its poor monetary properties relative to Bitcoin’s.

Toxic Bitcoiner 2y ago

And by “shitcoin” I don’t mean: going to zero, scam, etc. Here it means, massively overvalued relative to Bitcoin. After Bitcoin eats RE’s monetary premium, houses will still have utility value and some small reservation demand (location, community, speculation, moving cost friction, etc.)

Jack Spirko 2y ago

If you read the comments to my note you'd see the claim in one of them at least alone. Not like you have to look very far.

Let me ask do you work a j-o-b and rent your property? If you own a house did you start off in your first place as a renter?

Until you can show me how to buy bitcoin and get tax free cash flow using OPM, your statements are nonsense anyway.

Also I have been in BTC heavily publicly advocating for it since 2013, were you even here for the block wars? 🤷

I have been public with investment and economic predictions for 15 years and have had about 95% accuracy in doing so. Right now I am saying this and also saying at the same time the biggest real estate crash in history is about to happen.

I've got 15 years in the public eye to stand on with 10s of thousands of hours of audio that anyone can review to stand on, and you have what?

Look I am not being an ass here your response is exactly my point. The newest group of "plebs" which is a very new term in the history of bitcoin BTW are great but they are mostly very young people who are all in on ONE thing. That is good, it is also bad.

People who can barely speak English come to America and learn about real estate and build generational wealth while sleeping on the floor of the back room of a donut shop they are running for an uncle. They don't do that with bitcoin.

The two asset classes are quite divergent and serve wholly different purposes.

I also think you have been so roped into this you can't even understand what I am saying. Here is a reason episode of my show, NOTE THE EFFING TITLE. Then may be listen to it, then start this all from the top and read it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ZTseZykAU

Toxic Bitcoiner 2y ago

You’re overly invested in the biggest bubble in history. Everything you said is cope to justify your heavy bags and prior success with RE. Your income is dependent upon you not understanding it.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

You know jack shit about my investment position. I own three properties other than my primary. I do NOTHING to maintain them, I have owned them all for more than 9 years. No go back to your slave j-o-b and continue to think in a single dimension.

Jeff Swann 2y ago

IMO the general point is that real estate prices are severely inflated relative to other things & in addition to the possibility of a relative price adjustment in coming years there is also a non-zero risk of serious political instability. So the potential of incurring a total loss is much higher than at times in the past. Sound money (#bitcoin) is the right investment in times of uncertainty. I think there is also a bit of an airbnb bubble too, but certainly when it comes to cash flow the right sort of real estate can make a lot of sense.

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techfeudalist 2y ago

Real estate is a shitcoin because it’s a fraud. You think you own it, but you don’t really. You rent it from the government. Your title in the property just gives you the privilege to assign with govt approval.

It’s an investment only if you stay in the govt’s good graces and stay a good citizen. It will never perform as well as bitcoin over the long run.

Why buy real estate and give up your freedom?

Jeff Swann 2y ago

Anything that is paying you bitcoin (or money that you can easily convert to bitcoin) isn't exactly stealing your freedom. But it is true that ownership of real estate is far from absolute & the risk of political instability exacerbates the problem. Currently it is still not particularly difficult to remain in good standing with govt. I agree that things could change rapidly (as covid demonstrated) & asset seizure is not an impossibility. I am sure that Bitcoin will perform better, but Bitcoin also probably isn't going to send you monthly payments, & cash flow can matter more than appreciation. If buying property that you can rent out allows you to quit working without dipping into your stack every month & maybe even still accumulate some during bear markets, then it might be setting you free. But keeping a high % of your wealth in Bitcoin & having a sailboat or a well maintained RV or some sort of backup/exit plan might serve as important forms of insurance so that your property can't be turned into actual chains.

I do find it extremely distasteful to have to pay anything to an organization that is clearly trying to enslave & destroy me, so I do fully appreciate your point.

Diligent Ninja 2y ago

Paying you? Just because you're earning a few dollars in monthly rent doesn't mean your real estate is "paying you" - at least not until such time as your entire investment has been returned, otherwise you're still down on your investment and hoping the government doesn't rug you before you get your investment back over a million months of rent.

techfeudalist 2y ago

Also, keep in mind that real estate requires a down payment and that’s bitcoin you need to sell, or bitcoin you didn’t buy.

If you consider the 20% down payment, you’ll be trading massive capital appreciation in bitcoin for the relatively small income stream you’re getting from the property over the lifetime of the mortgage.

I haven’t seen any case where real estate (even with the income stream) makes any financial sense over the long term.

Diligent Ninja 2y ago

This is exactly the point I was trying to make, although I said "entire investment" when I should have said "down payment amount" because it's only the cash you had to put up that you need to worry about getting back, not the amount printed by the bank when you took out the mortgage.

Thanks for clarifying.

techfeudalist 2y ago

Yep. The only time I could see myself buying property now is when it was somehow special for my family and I couldn’t otherwise rent it. Quality time with the family is more scarce than bitcoin. 💕

I’ve sold off most of my real estate already. I’m down to a few rental properties, which I can’t sell fast enough. (And, of course, real estate isn’t as liquid as bitcoin either.)

I was recently chatting about this with a friend of mine who was complaining about stuff going wrong at his house and cottage and how he couldn’t find contractors to take care of it. I was grateful that I don’t have these problems anymore.

VelvetBlue_art 2y ago

Rent seekers calling other people retards. 🤭 That's a new one.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

Shut up, collect the simp money and pay your rend before I have your ass evicted. 😹

Jack Spirko 2y ago

Also rent seeking is not about housing so you also fail eco 101.

Brunswick 2y ago

I had renters that would constantly be late on rent. They would push later and later every month and because I was busy I didn't notice the fuckers were only paying 11 months out of the year. I never raised rent on them, and it was a sweetheart deal.

When I found out what they were doing, I kicked them out and didn't shed a tear, that one month made the difference between breaking even and losing money.

If I ever buy property to rent again, I'm making it a business and hire a manager, unless it's my retirement plan. Renters are a headache, they always push the limits and cause damage one way or another. I used to be a renter, but now after being a landlord, I have no sympathy for people whimpering about "paying more" as a renter.

In most cases, renting can only be profitable when done on scale, and the landlord is providing a valuable service by caring for all the maintenance and finances. If a landlord "doesent need to do much maintenance" it's only because you don't see what he pours into a unit between renters, and you didn't see what extra he did when it was built to make it resilient.

Mr⚡2MB 🐇🏴‍☠️ 2y ago

Just shut up and say I don't want to learn bitcoin because it is too complicated for what I want in my life. Then I will respect you, but using ignorance as a shield makes you look like a fuckin idiot.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

Cry harder. Look man I have been stacking and teaching people about BTC since 2013. It isn't one or the other unless you are myopic. That is your issue, not mine.

Mr⚡2MB 🐇🏴‍☠️ 2y ago

It's funny how you get triggered just by me copying what you said but replaced "real estate" with "bitcoin"

🤣🤣🤣

this thread has me so confused. I'm baffled at some of the mental gymnastics going on here.

Don't have much to add except, nice note, Jack 👍 I'll be over here tending my tomatoes.

Jacob Drafts 2y ago

I’ve got bitcoin. Got land as well. Part owner of about 50 acres scattered around the state. The other owners are my parents and siblings. Well. We own the LLC that owns the land. We don’t rent any of it at present. Most of it is growing trees. My portfolio is probably to heavily concentrated on land but then again I didn’t have to buy any of it so I’m not looking a gift horse in the mouth. Even if the property tax on the lake front half acre with a dock, one and half story garage just big enough for a kitchen, bathroom, my dad’s boat and bed upstairs is damn near what my parents paid for the land 30 years ago.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

And people with less EVERYTHING then you have will line up to tell you you are wrong. 😹

Jacob Drafts 2y ago

Ain’t that the truth.

Mr. Fred Rogers 2y ago

I think many would just say that in Bitcoin terms, rentals will lose. People are hyperbolic saying it’s a shitcoin.

In terms of profitability, liquidity, portability, and ability for a state to jack with the regulations or taxes etc., Bitcoin usually wins.

I say, increase Bitcoin position until people are a bit nervous, then consider diversifying, mainly for emotional reasons.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

I say with the avg income people have and the sheer small amount of surplus capital they have most will fail with a just buy BTC by mining fiat at a JOB strategy. It will be better than most workers do but not good enough if you really want more in life.

Maxis who claim "real estate is a shitcoin" and such, simply state the reality of this world: there has never been a time in civilization where any peaceful family "owned" a home. Armed land rent coercion is a constant in “civilization”.

Bitcoin won't change that, because thugs and looters gonna loot. Otherwise, “who will build the roads?”

So long as people have to rent real estate, there is a business model in subleasing from the local armed gang, and quite a good one for conformists, indeed.

The reality here is the same shit over and over: those that maintain and safely profit from the parasitic status quo, come up with reasons why the thing is "what to do, because the way it’s always been and profitable". (Same as completely owning people themselves once was on the same Animal Farm of the Free) It shows you to be a self-serving blowhard to anyone who is informed on the matter.

Same shit when you blow about a variety of common-sense topics - with unnecessary profanity and arrogance - as if you are the sole “adult in the room” with any intelligence, and anyone who disagrees is “retarded”.

Just [shut up and] say I am content with renting from my actual local land owners (invest in real estate), as long as I can sublease their real estate, and eventually resell the lease, because it is too dangerous and ruinous to actually do anything more than criticise and game their system.

Then you will safely profit from being the smart and practical milk cow on the Animal Farm of your local armed gang, while loudly, profanely and bombastically windbagging their system that has always been and nothing can change.

Jack Spirko 2y ago

Gonna bet your net wealth is and will always be crap.

Jeremy M. Boles 2y ago

Who has said real estate would be completely worthless? The handful of authors I read over the past month or so simply intelligently explained that Bitcoin will eradicate the current common use of real estate held for appreciation due to the dollar's lack of foundation / value. They still said property / land / real estate would be useful for directly earning income like rent. Just that over the years, Bitcoin may simply level out the value of that property.