Guess who… those who work, the individuals
Discussion
Please read a history book. That isn't funny. Or are You german?
What’s your problem?? I guess you should read better. Lenin never meant to create “socialism in one country”. That’s Stalin who pushed this vision. Engels was writing clearly to be careful about socialists.
I doubt Marx would have agreed with Stalin. But again. The thing that seems to be not clear to any of you, is that Stalin fought Nazism more than any other on earth. The USA entered the war when it was clear that the nazi would have lost, spending the rest of the time getting rich selling weapons to European countries, pretending to be immune from this type of shit as the land is so far away, nobody can reach the USA. I would argue that the USA is the evolution of Nazism. USA took all the brightest German minds and out them to work and create this dystopian world we leave in. you guys are so funny. Pretending to change things by just adopting bitcoin and keep on behaving like selfish egoistic egocentric capitalist douche.
And what’s wrong with being German??
I am Italian and can you please tell me where I was contradicting history??
And another point, who told you your history books are the absolute truth? Oh yeah right, the liberal propaganda!!
Good luck in commieland my friend. Let's end the discussion before I need to mention the millions of poor bastards that had to die for the brain disease of some commies... have a good year 2024.
Also, you guys sound so poor when you use this “commie” word. Is just the same way a nazi would act. You are being mildly nazi here! Congrats!
I doubt you like to be compared to a nazi, but that’s what you are actually doing now. Showcasing the American lead MacCarthism against anyone who thinks against the mainstream capitalistic consuming mentality, by neglecting other people to lights with “nicknames” like commies!!
Have guns staying nazi
So the workers collectively own the means of production?
I assume you're well aware of the history of communism - how that lovely-sounding theory has played out in many places - but I also assume that you're posting in good faith, and I'm curious about how logistics would work in your vision.
Let's say you have a means of production - a farm, a factory - and 40 workers. Who/what enforces the even distribution of ownership?
I personally think that the model you are talking about is inherently coercive and cannot tollerate what I am talking about.
Also, I know the history you are talking about, but it’s funny that you pretend it to be communism where instead it was socialism in one country. If this is not clear I think you should read deeper.
I personally think that the industrial framework cannot exactly be capable of hosting such an environment, simply put, if we are 10 people and 9 work for the common goal, and one decides to misbehave, well, it is going to be easy for him to grab value from the other participants, and, if this one is a true statement, it cannot lead to the assumption : there is nothin one can do, cause there will always be malicious actors, cause if Satoshi would have think the same, he probably wouldn’t have find the solution to the Byzantine General problem.
So, admitting that this can work out, I think people shall be given the tools to own the facility and the tools they work in. There shall not be a capitalistic socialist government facilitating an oligarch to own and possess the industry.
If you people believe that shit like Ford is the accomplishment of Ford alone, well you may be wrong and you may have been kept captives in a mentality which NEEDS a CEO, mostly cause in that way all the benefits of being entitled to the creation of the idea goes to one single person, which becomes warshipped (see Steve Jobs). While in reality they are just a bunch of assertive yes man, who gave people the feeling that there is an actual choice, while in fact there is no real alternative! So, I think people who work in a factory shall own that factory. It has happened in Italy with Olivetti, and you know, the capital act to protect itself from external bodies, and the project got rejected.
In my vision things shall be realised slightly differently: I think we need a different framework than industrial production. The goal shall be to enable production on the leafs of the graph, by the mean of 3d printing for example.
So, with that said, I am aware that communism cannot be easily achieved or even tried out in a consuming society, but I am also aware that what you guys talk about it’s Stalin socialism in one country and it is pretty different from the vision of Marx and Engels.