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#Bitcoin maxis calling every other coins a #shitcoin only demonstrate their lack of curiosity or unwillingness to learn.

Maybe it is also a way to conceal their ignorance on the broader #crypto industry and feel comforted in their investment thesis but, as one said: « The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge ».

It’s okay to not know about every other #blockchain out there (who can keep track of all decent projects anyway?), but don’t call them shitcoins if you have no clue what they are or what they can do for you.

ew0k 2y ago

I still don’t see compelling use cases for alts beyond art, which bitcoin now has. But I don’t see why other software can’t accrue value, I just have yet to see it on a consumer level.

What’s a major unlock for alts? DAOs? Get scammed by people you don’t know. Lending? I’d rather have any lending yield operated through a centralized bank to have legal recourse tbh. Swapping useless meme coins? Distraction. Digital ID? We live in enough of a privacy dystopia, would never willingly give away all my info. Gaming? Maybe there is something here, but it’s out of my interests as a consumer and although a large market, doesn’t seem *that* large where I’m interested from an investment standpoint.

Besides art, I can see nfts as event tickets, or rewards programs… again not super compelling imo.

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Discussion

Burcgravius 2y ago

Privacy? As is the case with #Monero?

ew0k 2y ago

No I’m referring to how alts tend to push for these ID systems that factor in social credit scores, which is dystopian imo.

I’m not interested in monero because I don’t personally need it, but it doesn’t bother me that it exists. Bitcoin has decent privacy tools and probably more on the way, but tbh I doubt I’ll need to use them ever.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Coinjoining is weak privacy via obfuscation (vs encryption). The range of connections and amounts are all still visible. Can be unraveled with more data or user mistakes.

Lightning sender privacy is decent. Reciever privacy is bad and amounts can be derived.

"We identified 27,183 private channels, discovered hidden balances, and showed how a passive adversary can infer payment endpoints with very high probability."

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2003.12470.pdf

Liquid only hides amounts. The transaction graph is still visible. And it is a permissioned network. Among many other problems.

https://twitter.com/Truthcoin/status/1689337656319016960

Ecash is great privacy - better than anything above. But unfortunately Ecash is custodial and rehypothecatable.

LogicallyMinded 2y ago

There are several valid capabilities #Bitcoin doesn’t have that other #crypto aim to make available such as:

- Base layer privacy

- Non-pegged stable coins

- Cross chain swapping

- Decentralized finance

- Digital ID

- Crypto-economic base marketplace

- On-chain payments

- Global on-chain scalability

Of course there a also plenty of copycats, weak projects as well as outright scams. And also, the tokens distribution of most projects is heavily weighted toward a few individuals. But would you call every fruit a bad apple because of few rotting apples seen at the grocery store?

ew0k 2y ago

Speaking as a consumer here, again, open to software that can bring value but haven’t seen it:

- Base layer privacy (don’t need, bitcoin has practical options)

- Non-pegged stable coins (don’t need)

- Cross chain swapping (until another chain offers an interesting killer app, not interested. I did use eth when eth was the only chain with high nft activity)

- Decentralized finance (I stated before that I’d rather use a centralized 3rd party for lending. Everything else is basically swapping into or getting yield on coins I don’t need)

- Digital ID (absolutely against this)

- Crypto-economic base marketplace (?)

- On-chain payments (I’m good with lightning)

- Global on-chain scalability (not sure this is necessary and that it doesn’t come with major security trade offs)

LogicallyMinded 2y ago

That’s totally fine that you don’t need any of these but others want/need them. Hence, my original point to say that it’s nonsensical to call everything but #Bitcoin a #shitcoin, unless you think the World revolves over your personal needs and those of your pairs.

ew0k 2y ago

It’s reasonable from an educational standpoint imo because the vast majority of alts start off as pump and dump scams where vcs are looking for your buy in as their quick exit liquidity.

Now, can an alt that started as a scam grow into something useful? Possible, but I’ve yet to see a compelling case where I’d be able to recommend people look into whatever coin.

LogicallyMinded 2y ago

There are for sure a lot of scams but most (not all) top market cap projects didn’t start with the intent to scam people. I think most of the top projects have been looking to innovate and bring something to the industry. Many (if not most) fail to do so but innovation in all industries always had a higher failure rate. But to me there is a difference between a scam and a failing startup. Sometime, it’s unclear whether a project is more of a scam or an enterprise which genuinely failed to deliver on its promise. Now, you’re right that the tokenomics of most (but not all) #crypto is horrendous because of the initial distribution. Does this make them a scam? I don’t think so, but it certainly makes them a poor investment for retail investment in which initial investors can certainly be qualified of profiteers. Again, Bitcoin had been the best investment since its inception (although it hasn’t been in the past cycle) and it can’t be replicated but that doesn’t make every other project a scam.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Yes, 99% of alts are trash. But there are a handful that are legit. There are many things alts provide that Bitcoin cannot.

Strong default privacy, real world fungibility, extremely cheap transaction fees are just a few. All while remaining non-custodial, permissionless, and P2P.

You can't be good at something you don't specialize in. You also can't be good at everything because each aspect requires trade offs that are mutually exclusive.