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By "the locals", you mean population segments who have bought into 1800s-style european Romantic nationalism after incessant propaganda.

Other than that, we agree...and all of these systems were less bigoted, less divisive and less racist than modern Israel is internally.

Never mind how it treats its non-citizen subjects and neighbours.

The Middle East can do better, and always has except when Westerners pour aid $$$ in to reward the worst actors.

Augustus Cato 7mo ago 💬 1

The last 150 years of the Ottoman Empire was an ever increasing nightmare for minority groups such as the Assyrian Christians, Jews, Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Shia Muslims etc'.

The idea that minority groups would want to go their own way is not propaganda especially as the Ottoman state post 1770, was a mess. It was incapable of preventing a foreign invasion whilst also engaging in massacres on its own subjects.

How would you compare Israel's system to its neighbours? How do those nieghbours deal with minority religious groups? Do their neighbours offer naturalization to individuals who are a part of minority religious groups?

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Low Information Voter 7mo ago 💬 1

Now we're reaching some common ground.

Yes, especially from the 1850s, the Ottoman Empire changed, centralised, and bureaucratised, adopted elements of European nationalism into its ideology, and became a lot more like its Absolutist Western peers. This was resisted internally, and gravely weakened the society's ability to resist outside forces.

Ottoman successor states (Israel's neighbours) have undergone the same process since WW2, with funding and encouragement from the US, former USSR, and "Bretton Woods" international institutions. And frequent coups and invasions whenever they stalled or changed direction.

The US government (with partners Turkey and Ukraine, and billions of dollars in "aid") managed to overthrow Syria's unpleasant government and replace it with a literal Al Qaeda head-chopper.

Said head-chopper has had sanctions lifted for the first time since 1979, and is recieving funding from the EU, for being a fawning Israel admirer and promoter of fitna.

Blaming native Semites for Western policy outcomes is antisemitism.

Augustus Cato 7mo ago 💬 1

You referred to Israel's system as being racist and divisive.

Which neighboring country would you say has a system that you would hold up as being neither racist nor divisive?

How does that neighbouring country deal with minority religious groups?

Does it offer naturalization to individuals who are a part of minority religious groups?

On the Ottomans:

Napoleon's invasion of Egypt and Syria took place between 1798 and 1801.

The modernization reforms started in 1839.

The empire was already weak, as it suffered from a similar problem the Byzantine Romans experienced, having to be in conflict with multiple rivals on multiple flanks.

On Syria:

Assad's government was always going to fall. The question was when his government would collapse not if. He only 'won' the civil war because of the ground troops provided to his side by Iran.

Assad from 2019 onwards essentially became in practice, the mayor of Damascus. He couldn't control Syria.

Ahmed Al-Sharaa is not a friend with Israel.

He broke away from both isis and Al Qaeda. He is at war with both of them. In particular Isis have said recently their conflict with him is on the level of methodology, creed- essentially between Islam or 'democracy'.

Low Information Voter 7mo ago

You are repeating yourself, Augustus. And without being able to rebutt any of my points.

I am very glad I seem to have inherited the "intuitive grasp of compound interest" without the "self-pitying hypocrisy".

Augustus Cato 7mo ago 💬 1

I reworded the questions because it seemed to me that you didn't even come close to answering my questions the first time around.