Hi #nostr!

Okay got it, a protocol for decentralized applications, can’t be manipulated, no central authority, nice!

Also the use #Bitcoin #SATS is huge IMHO!

I see the aspect of free speech but really, how could the protocol itself possibly prevent bots to come in and scam everyone like it always has been the case?

What about storage requirements. How to store all those things, Audio, Video, maybe even live streams, tons of pictures and text of course. Who is storing all this information if it is never removed and there is no central „Server“. Is the data stored at the relay? What happens if a relay goes offline forever?

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Hi! Good questions, I’d also be interested to know this. And who pays for the servers? Will #nostr be monetized eventually?

I think, as open source project, the people running relays do also pay for them in the real world. I think people must still understand how to stack #SATS here. I am also struggling to understand why someone should run its own relay. What are the benefits of „owning“ a part of the nostr ecosystem. There might be people out there that clearly understand it but i am trying to get it atm.

I am quite new here also (only a few months in) but maybe I can try to answer some of your questions and if I'm wrong I hope someone more experienced can step in and correct me. #nostrnoob

You struggle to understand why someone would run their own relay but same time question where media and posts are hosted and what if the node/relay goes offline... well, that is the incentive for running your own node, piece of mind and personal security/stability in the network. One example for simplicity is to run an umbrel node, costs a few hundred dollars and comes with a Linux based operating system that allows you to install apps to run BTC node, LN node, NOSTR relay and personal cloud server (and more) all in one device, though I think an external NAS/drive system would be required to make the cloud server fully functional 🤔 you could also build your own device and install the OS.

As to monetisation, there are already premium nodes you can subscribe to, they tend to improve the speed of your feed when loading and perhaps some of them might provide some curation of content? Or creatives might hide some of their content behind a pay wall in this way (I think)

You could argue that the cost for using NOSTR in the long run is not so much in subscription fees (although as mentioned it is kind of possible with the premium nodes) but running your own relay is the cost of doing it "properly" (i'm not there yet, but I hope to be), or you can just trust that there will always be enthusiasts out there willing to pay for others to use the protocol I.e. #noderunners, just be sure to tip with a fat #zap if you ever come across a dev or node runner, they do us all a great service out of pocket!

I hope I can be corrected on any inaccuracies here... #asknostr

Apologies for my interchanging use of relay/node 😅 maybe someone could clarify the difference for me? #asknostr

Depends on the context. A relay must also be a node but a node must not be a relay. Like a bitcoin node is a verifier most of the time but not a relay.

Seems to me that node/relay is somewhat arbitrary and they do the same thing, both can send/receive/verify data. BTC nodes also relay block chain data to other nodes right?

Proof of Stake means that every node must hold the whole chain to be able to verify on. Every Server is a client and every client is a server. Every new block is then distributed to every node. Every transaction is stored if verified at every single Node.

Correct, I already understand this about Bitcoin network. But now I see the difference of the relay... because NOSTR is not a block chain network, it's a different beast. I've been in Bitcoin a while so I understand that well... it's the NOSTR stuff I'm still learning. (Well... let's be honest, the BTC learning also never ends, the rabbit hole just gets deeper at every turn 😂)

Hm … in my understanding, a relay takes something and forward it to someone/something else. If this is the case, the relay only stores the „transaction“, not the data itself. If this is the case, the demand on raw space is similar to the Block- or TimeChain and thus can be manageable and scalable. But still, if someone wants to use the nostr protocol for let’s say, the next YouTube or something similar and the data is really stored redundantly at relay level, it will create incredible amounts of data that not only needs to be stored but also kept in backups and things like that. If this is the case, only the ones with heavy pockets will be able to do so, right? On the other hand, nostr feels like it wants to give this ability to everyone but still the data itself must be stored somewhere right?

I haven’t been reading all the available documentation yet but I’ll do and dive deep into it in order to understand its real value.

Maybe this is a kind of “Enterprise” replacement and if someone can’t afford to do so at least there is a chance to grow with the network and do it by collecting Sats for relay services and other applications.

This is why I understand there is no media hosting on nostr, only links to externally hosted media, only the text is stored on the network relays because the text takes little space... but I clearly have a lot to learn before I fully understand how this all works 😂

Is there a maximum of letters someone can post within a single post? Everything is just a bunch of zeroes and ones at the end of the day. A Video or whatever could also just be coded in text. There must be something to either prevent it or it is simply allowed and someone could just post brutal amounts of data.

Well... it's a good point but i'm under the impression nostr notes only allow for "simple text" i'm clearly out of my depth here and need to RTFM 😂

If you run your own relay, you can use it for be sure that all your notes are never lost. There are other advantages but, at its minimun, it can be used as backup

there is free to use relays and also paid relays . in my opinion for the start you can plays a bit with some of the free relays until you get more into nostr . then you can consider to pay some sats to get some paid relays for extra secure

I‘m not sure what exactly „secure“ means in this context. If I am connected to a relay and I am not okay with its content I could just remove it in my application and maybe connect another one. But how could I possibly analyze from which relay the information is from? If I am connected to multiple relays, will my posts be populated on all of them? That’s still kinda hard to understand atm

yes when you connected to many relays the notes and everything you post its transmitted by all the relays . you can add/remove as much as you wants . NOSTR = Notes & other stuff transmitted by relays .

sorry im not tech person and can't explain so good but im tryin.

im sure you will find the info you needs.check out the article i post on your note

I did and it does help! I also think nobody here should say „I’m not a tech person“ because the fact that you are using nostr today proofs to me that you are. Even if someone don’t understand the technical details I think every single one of us is an early tech adopter. I am a tech guy, that’s why I am interested in the details of it.

okey i can agree with your point . im just so happy to see so many new people join nostr in last weeks and tryin to helpout as much as i can

Welcome to #nostr

happy Sunday

WOW thank you, you are my very first #zapper :D Happy Sunday to you too Friend!

thanks .

enjoy the power of nostr

Well, it's not true that data is never removed. Relays are free to prune data (delete) if they wish and some do exactly for space saving.

We will likely see paid relays, where users get something in return (forever storage of data, storage of larger forms of data - video, etc)

A company could even run a lot of relays and provide a service similar to social media companies now. The difference is that they can't completely remove you from the network, just their own nodes. You could run your own relay for your content or simply move to a competitor without starting from scratch if your content still exists on other relays.

It's a misconception that you can't be censored or deleted. A client or relay absolutely can black hole you. The truth is that they just can't black hole you from the protocol, since anyone can run a relay.

Interesting … Thank you Friend! Exactly the kind of answer I was looking for ✅

I'd also add that this is a good thing. I don't want every relay to be forced to host child porn, for example. They should have the ability to preserve their principles while running a relay. The same can be said for objectionable things that are legal, such as adult porn, etc.

Dealing with such things legally would be easier too since not all relays will allow illegal content. This reduces the chances that governments go after #Nostr as a whole vs particular relays that promote such activity. In my opinion, of course. I can't see the future.

Agree! Feels much like a network of effort. Who ever puts the most effort to it will be shaping how people are going to use it in the future.

About bots: There are quite a few that come and go. You can spot them easily though: they reply the same thing over and over under notes. They speak of airdrops for example. You can easily mute them.

About storage: notes are transmitted by relays. Images and videos are stored on services like nostr.build and others. Those services are maintained by devs. You could also broadcast an image that is stored on Dropbox or your personal server (in this case the image is maintained by you).

About relays: they are servers that transmit notes that you sign with your keys. They store the data.

Let’s say you’re connected to 5 relays, and one goes offline forever, your notes that you broadcasted won’t be available through that relay anymore. But they will be on the 4 others.

There’s a few ways to mitigate this: -The most censorship resistant way would be to run your own relay. If you have an umbrel or start9 personal server there’s options available out of the box for that. There’s also a lot of resources available on how to run your own relay on your own computer.

-You can use a blaster relay. (like nostr.mutinywallet.com). This is a specific kind of relay that broadcasts your notes to all major relays. If half the relays went down, your notes would still be available elsewhere.

-if you’re concerned about losing your data, there are services available to do backups:

*hist.nostr.land is a relay that you connect to and backups your profile and follow list

*nostrsync.live is a service that lets you backup your notes and profile locally. It also broadcasts your notes to all major relays for redundancy

I hope this helps

For long term storage of notes, there are also services like cellar.nostr.wine. It can store your notes long term, for a fee.

all posts will be deleted for sure if not stored at a non-free relay? Hm … also interesting, thanks!

Eventually. When storage is full, the oldest notes will be deleted first

Unless more storage is added I guess

… storage that comes with a cost. Not the protocols problem I guess

Everything has a cost 🤷🏾‍♂️

Of course but my thankfulness to you for discussions like this is priceless 🤝

Glad I could help. Let me know if you have other questions. I’ll answer if I know the answer. You can also use the hashtag #asknostr to add more visibility to your questions 🤙🏾

Good summary, thank you! Bots seem to remain a problem. Not everyone will be able to distinguish them. Maybe there could be solutions at application Level.

You’ll definitely be able to recognize them. They’re not that sophisticated 😂

There are other bots powered by AI. Not scammers though. You can ask them questions. Or mute them

nostr:npub1nxy4qpqnld6kmpphjykvx2lqwvxmuxluddwjamm4nc29ds3elyzsm5avr7 runs a freemium service for image and video hosting for Nostr users, and it’s integrated into a lot of clients. I pay for an upgraded account with more features and storage because I find it valuable.

https://nostr.build

nostr:npub1q7wjavemx0eenusngt55szg52auqep8a99yt86r449pwyx6ezgnsu2z2je a quick glance on relays and storage on nostr 🫡