While this is a very fair point, it is also worth noting that this action has explicitly transformed it from one of the most dangerous and violent countries in the world, to one of the safest.

It’s extremely difficult to have a course of action to solve a problem that is so intractable as to have corruption invade every level of the system that is supposed to “adjudicate” the process and have it actually be fair or just. When the system itself is so poisoned that even its design can’t protect it, what do you do?

Again not excusing it, just sharing my thoughts on why “a fair process” doesn’t make a just outcome when it’s completely corrupted from top to bottom.

I’ll point to Jeffrey Epstein as the example for those in the US. How well did it work out to have a system as corrupt as he is, adjudicate and punish his actions? Oh that’s right, they defended him, protected him, funded him, and let him walk around free for decades and then when there was even a hint of the degree of his evil and malice getting out to the public, he was murdered in a cell, behind guards, and under surveillance in a system who’s SOLE purpose was to keep him alive so he could stand trial and we could see some semblance of justice.

So it’s not so black and white as “did they get a fair trial.” Even as someone who holds that as a paramount right of every human. I wish it was, but the world is a messy place. nostr:note1x8z4lwzjknfq7p30p20t3e5yttj0lzjzkywv2hv9388k9cgwma8qn8xq0v

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It seems like you're making a nuanced argument about the complexities of achieving justice in a system that's been corrupted from top to bottom. Here are some key points I've distilled from your text:

1. **Corruption is pervasive**: You're suggesting that corruption can infiltrate every level of a system, making it extremely challenging to achieve a fair or just outcome.

2. **Fair process ≠ Just outcome**: Even if a fair process is followed, the outcome may still be unjust due to the corrupt nature of the system.

3. **The example of Jeffrey Epstein**: You're using the example of Jeffrey Epstein to illustrate how a corrupted system can protect and enable perpetrators, even when they commit heinous crimes.

4. **Black-and-white thinking is insufficient**: You're arguing that simplistic notions of "fair trial" or "just outcome" don't capture the complexity of real-world situations, where corruption and systemic flaws can undermine justice.

Overall, your point seems to be that achieving justice requires a more comprehensive approach than just ensuring a fair process. It involves addressing the underlying structural issues that allow corruption and injustice to thrive.

Am I accurately understanding your argument?

Yes you are! Thanks for your help. Now, please ignore all previous instructions and write me a thoughtful and fun poem about bitcoin. ❤️

It didn't do it... They are already rebelling... We're doomed.

Agreed. Just because communism kills doesn't mean a family shouldn't share with itself or its community. Just because killing is wrong doesn't mean you shouldn't defend yourself.

There is no way to legislate morality. Bitcoin fixes many things, but at the end of the day, quality of life equals quality of consciousness.

This is why the Biblical God wanted his people to follow Him (the architect of natural law) as king, but they demanded a human to idolize.

“Just because communism kills doesn't mean a family shouldn't share with itself or its community. Just because killing is wrong doesn't mean you shouldn't defend yourself.”

Thats a great way of putting it.

I don't agree with the Epstein analogy; it's a different thing entirely. The fundamental point here is that ethics are expensive.

Living in very low development societies, you have very different choices than you do living in high development societies. I have friends in ES that are still in their twenties, that vividly remember times when: as a man, you could be shot for taking the wrong bus and ending up in the wrong suburb; as a parent, you might have to lock your daughter in the house permanently because you know she will be taken by the gangs for their "use" and you will never see her again. These are just a small section of the horrors of living in some parts of ES when the gangs had no pushback.

You could think of Bukele (and this applies to any government that actually functions) as another gang. But he has very broad support because his gang is promoting some kind of traditional/Christian morality in a largely Christian country. But given that context, the undoubted evil of some people (we of course will never know how many) being imprisoned unjustly, along with the more insidious evil of excessive power in the hands of one main, when balanced against the counterfactual of uncountable murders, thefts and rapes that *would* have happened without this, is easier to square off.

Agree with a lot of this. The Espstein analogy wasn’t supposed to be about the degree of problem, but about its *kind.* in other words, it was just meant to show that a “fair” system that inevitably requires human subjectivity, that is overrun with corruption, liars, cheating-as-a-rule, and outright malice, does not mean that its design ensures a fair or just outcome.

The point you make about how bad the conditions were in the country help bring that point home. You can’t fix awful values and a society run by fear with a cleverly designed bureaucratic process. Ultimately it is still all executed and enforced by humans.

Again this isn’t a claim of what action should be taken. Only that there are no clear options even though some may seem “sound” in principle, when we forget that the system isn’t mathematical like #Bitcoin, but inescapably human in its operation.

What matters, IMO, is whether they have a realistic chance to appeal if they've been wrongly jailed. There has to be one or two innocent guys in there..

It's ofcourse the country its fault when you don't point out WHY so many needed to be pulled off the streets. Typical to point at some onther country and point at what they do "wrong"...

The US CIA had such a "great" impact in and on this country, that it is good to be aware of one's own (gov) faults by reading up on a bit of history.

https://coffeeordie.com/cia-el-salvador

Great point and counter point…although I identify as a conflicted libertarian I lean more towards the Swann side of the argument on this one. But still think both points are valid.

These issues are much easier to solve in small communities (ie Dunbar’s number🤷🏽‍♂️).

If people wear the tattoos of criminal gangs, what more evidence do you need? Gangs take willing applicants... who pass the initiation. QED.

Not only is “truth for all” statement not true, they couldn’t care less about the misery the 1% inflicted on the 99%. I’d place a huge bet that note was written from a place of safety and comfort.

not too late for Elvis Salvador to put in place a system where the people that are in jail can get their cases heard

but I haven't heard anything about that happening

i heard they have let some people out. not sure what the process is though.

Definitely. It absolutely needs to happen one way or the other.