Replying to Avatar Ava

RIP #Obtanium on "certified Android devices."

"Non-certified OSes, like GrapheneOS, should be unaffected by this for as long as they are allowed to continue to exist."

Freedom tech exists on iOS—after developers KYC themselves, even where Apple now allows sideloading under its rules. Android matters because it's open source and allows sideloading without Google's permission. That's why Nostr apps, FOSS tools, and freedom tech took root here.

#GrapheneOS works because it preserves that ecosystem without breaking continuity. But now Google's forcing developer KYC for the Play Store on certified devices. The choice becomes: KYC to Google or start over.

This is what breaks mobile in a way desktop never broke. On Linux, you can run open-source and closed-source software on the same primary system. On mobile, once the app ecosystem is gated, custom AOSP ROMs don’t get that role.

The result is a split by design. As I predicted—for the foreseeable future—stock Android becomes the primary device for most. Privacy ROMs get relegated to secondary use, not because of capability—but because of access.

For those whose threat model demands it, privacy ROMs remain the primary device. For everyone else, they become secondary—appealing to those willing to sacrifice convenience for privacy and security, but not the masses.

Obtainium dying on stock Android is the warning. After this, the rest is just enforcement.

The catch now, however, is that with custom ROMs you’re rebuilding the entire app ecosystem from scratch.

On Linux, you can still install closed-source software. On mobile, once you step outside the Google/Apple ecosystem, you’re not just losing a store—you’re losing the distribution, licensing, and services stack a lot of the apps people actually use are built around.

That’s Linux on mobile, but without an easy way to carry over the apps people already paid for, depend on for productivity, and use every day.

That’s the challenge in front of us right now.

https://keepandroidopen.org/

#IKITAO

"There is no spoon"

I was able to set up a new GrapheneOS for a family member without ever touching droidify or obtanium.

First step, download nostr:nprofile1qqs83nn04fezvsu89p8xg7axjwye2u67errat3dx2um725fs7qnrqlgpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7rn7acz APK directly from their github repo (use Vanadium for this).

Once zapstore is installed you literally never ever have the need for Obtanium again.

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And coming soon, add any open source repo directly to the indexer. No need to go through Obtainium any longer

When export/import?

Please explain

Import/export of installed apps via Zapstore to make restoring your apps on a new device easier.

Coming in next milestone via encrypted 30267 event.

https://github.com/zapstore/zapstore/issues/20

No plans for files, you can pull/decrypt the event from relays if necessary

You're so amazing.

My main issue with Zapstore is the number of apps that are signed by Zapstore rather than the developer. It seems to me that you're relying on a single person and key to sign a lot of critical apps (Bitwarden, etc). Where Obtainium at least spreads the risk out (or it seems to anyway). Maybe it has the same problems and I'm mistaken somewhere. nostr:npub10r8xl2njyepcw2zwv3a6dyufj4e4ajx86hz6v4ehu4gnpupxxp7stjt2p8

Either way, I tried Zapstore and just used it for apps like Amber that are signed by the Dev to make myself feel better. I ultimately gave up because Zapstore kept trying to update every app with no way of excluding the ones I didn't want it touching.

nostr:nprofile1qqs0agvxc2jx0rdugdmsfmkjzcyyd698s8jlk9c9d6dmxvuyp4daauspz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezumrpdejz7qgmwaehxw309a6xsetxdaex2um59ehx7um5wgcjucm0d5hsxx5cc2 I don't see an issue with it because they clearly display SHA256.

Let's take Bitwarden latest release for example. This is a sha for the apk from their GitHub repo (copy/paste)

sha256:fc8c8124650665270925648e0ec35bf7336f26058e3bd72eabf41d859727d220

You will see this same sha displayed in zapstore. Makes no huge difference who signs the release if keys match.

This is a misconception and conflation of concepts, but it's my fault for not explaining better (although it has been addressed in the latest Zapstore).

Define signing? Indexed apps on Zapstore are simply caching what is on Github -for discoverability which is nil in Obtainium- and signing a Nostr event with that. They are NOT signing the APK. So in this sense it has the exact same level of risk than Obtainium. I would say less, because on Zapstore you can tell what you are about to install, in Obtainium it's not that clear because of lacking metadata.

By default Zapstore will install from the external/original source, and only fall back if it 404'd:

@nostr:npub1l6scds4yv7xmcsmhqnhdy9sggm520q09lvts2m5mkvecgr2mmmeqsuj5rc we're working on splitting relays for indexed vs developer-signed apps; implementing relay management UI as we speak.

https://github.com/zapstore/zapstore/issues/205

and soon the ability to hide closed source apps:

https://github.com/zapstore/zapstore/issues/197

Hope that brings you back!

That would definitely make it easier to use it the way I'm trying to. The app is otherwise quite nice. Just a maintenance headache for me right now. I appreciate the update.

I assumed you were building the apps from source as a middle man, then signing that binary and storing it somewhere for Zapstore users to download. "Signed by Zapstore" was vague without understanding what was going on in the background. Signing is even more confusing given that it's over Nostr, where we also sign things.

I didn't realize you were just pulling it from the official repo and "signing" it in whatever sense you mean the term.

Or I didn't realize this change was made, if the process has changed. I think the issue is that I felt forced to make assumptions in place of actual understanding. I have concerns about Obtainium too, I just didn't have the whole signing confusion since it's clear that it's being pulled from the link I gave it (with some trust for the software).

Accrescent is also good. Zapstore is best.

There is no second best.

Also 🖕to Saylor :D

Please explain to me: what's bad with Obtanium?

Nothing if you (1) can and (2) want to use it. I merely suggested an alternative path.