RIP #Obtanium on "certified Android devices."

"Non-certified OSes, like GrapheneOS, should be unaffected by this for as long as they are allowed to continue to exist."

Freedom tech exists on iOS—after developers KYC themselves, even where Apple now allows sideloading under its rules. Android matters because it's open source and allows sideloading without Google's permission. That's why Nostr apps, FOSS tools, and freedom tech took root here.

#GrapheneOS works because it preserves that ecosystem without breaking continuity. But now Google's forcing developer KYC for the Play Store on certified devices. The choice becomes: KYC to Google or start over.

This is what breaks mobile in a way desktop never broke. On Linux, you can run open-source and closed-source software on the same primary system. On mobile, once the app ecosystem is gated, custom AOSP ROMs don’t get that role.

The result is a split by design. As I predicted—for the foreseeable future—stock Android becomes the primary device for most. Privacy ROMs get relegated to secondary use, not because of capability—but because of access.

For those whose threat model demands it, privacy ROMs remain the primary device. For everyone else, they become secondary—appealing to those willing to sacrifice convenience for privacy and security, but not the masses.

Obtainium dying on stock Android is the warning. After this, the rest is just enforcement.

The catch now, however, is that with custom ROMs you’re rebuilding the entire app ecosystem from scratch.

On Linux, you can still install closed-source software. On mobile, once you step outside the Google/Apple ecosystem, you’re not just losing a store—you’re losing the distribution, licensing, and services stack a lot of the apps people actually use are built around.

That’s Linux on mobile, but without an easy way to carry over the apps people already paid for, depend on for productivity, and use every day.

That’s the challenge in front of us right now.

https://keepandroidopen.org/

#IKITAO

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Discussion

The real problem is, how many independent FOSS dev will quit and stop their project if the usage of their app drop by 90% due to more restrictions to access them ?

It's a loss for everyone, only Google as to win from it by applying more control, more censorship for apps they don't like and more forced revenue from their only official and approved store that is working without the user to go through 25 warnings and challenges.

I am feeling boxed in by Google. From my terrible Pixel6a battery issue and now to this 😫

Its totally fucked google built an amazing park.. Then raised walls and turned it into a prison..

Twas the plan all along lol

It's clear that they're either pushing to mass surveillance or complete anarchy, depending on how the people will react.

Either we comply or burn the whole thing into the ground.

Let's burn it then

What is a certified device?

The one with all the government backdoors built in

They're saying stock android won't let you use alternative app stores?

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↩️ REPLY to nostr:npub1f6ugxyxkknket3kkdgu4k0fu74vmshawermkj8d06sz6jts9t4kslazcka

Re: nostr:note1c0eelfhk7lf5dmfpezwaxed8sacsep3pvwul8q5y5kd6l5rce03sjwfgw9

nostr:npub1me67k8t6vcncq75dlu8mxd70euvful56lz4ky20k3rmxgugvxq2qy23gnm said:

They're saying stock android won't let you use alternative app stores?

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It means that Google is going fullon Apple

Devices that pass safetynet, which only happens on a locked device. Magisk used to spoof this, not sure it does anymore since the developer joined team Google.

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Time for a new Foss operating system to take over

Just stick with Android. Nothing wrong with that. We just need the hardware where we can install Graphene or other AOSPs at scale cause if our niche is too small, we won't get heard.

Keep building open source apps no matter what people..

Keep using Fdriod & zap store ..

Keep trying to get unaware aware before we all get trapped ..

#foss #nostr #opensource #keepandroidopen

nostr:nevent1qqsqtxmqk7aajum4e3wwe5n440jhm5wravacas9k3wxhsrcct88lejgzyp8t3qcs666wm9wx6e4rjkea8n64nwzl4my0w6ga4l2qt2fwq4wk6qcyqqqqqqg0fy8rx

Agree that this is is not great, but it's not nearly as bad as you make it seem.

Google is not limiting the apps available on alternative OSs. They are limiting what apps are available on stock OSs.

If anything, this makes an alternative OS more useful relative to stock, not less.

The negative here is that some devs may stop developing given the alternatives of KYCing or losing the distribution the Play Store offers.

Even that is probably exaggerated. Most will KYC. Ride or dies will abandon the Play Store.

The bigger issue seems to be that people are forced more into picking one or the other. Some people have a mixed setup. I think nostr:npub1f6ugxyxkknket3kkdgu4k0fu74vmshawermkj8d06sz6jts9t4kslazcka is in that camp. I'm all the way into the GrapheneOS end with no Google services and that's fine for me, but not for most people. So they either have stock Google and none of the cool shit (assuming you may be wrong about the KYC part) or have to completely dive into the deep end like me and give up some of the stuff they used. And even though Graphene has sandboxed Play store and services, I can confirm that some applications have never functioned properly on my wife's phone after switching, even though they worked fine on stock.

I'm sure there are other issues I'm missing. I think I've had banking apps refuse to work even with google services (some integrity check, I can't remember, switched banks). I don't use the NFC payment stuff, so not sure how it works, but it would be a problem for many people if it didn't.

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"There is no spoon"

I was able to set up a new GrapheneOS for a family member without ever touching droidify or obtanium.

First step, download nostr:nprofile1qqs83nn04fezvsu89p8xg7axjwye2u67errat3dx2um725fs7qnrqlgpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7rn7acz APK directly from their github repo (use Vanadium for this).

Once zapstore is installed you literally never ever have the need for Obtanium again.

And coming soon, add any open source repo directly to the indexer. No need to go through Obtainium any longer

When export/import?

Please explain

Import/export of installed apps via Zapstore to make restoring your apps on a new device easier.

Coming in next milestone via encrypted 30267 event.

https://github.com/zapstore/zapstore/issues/20

No plans for files, you can pull/decrypt the event from relays if necessary

You're so amazing.

My main issue with Zapstore is the number of apps that are signed by Zapstore rather than the developer. It seems to me that you're relying on a single person and key to sign a lot of critical apps (Bitwarden, etc). Where Obtainium at least spreads the risk out (or it seems to anyway). Maybe it has the same problems and I'm mistaken somewhere. nostr:npub10r8xl2njyepcw2zwv3a6dyufj4e4ajx86hz6v4ehu4gnpupxxp7stjt2p8

Either way, I tried Zapstore and just used it for apps like Amber that are signed by the Dev to make myself feel better. I ultimately gave up because Zapstore kept trying to update every app with no way of excluding the ones I didn't want it touching.

nostr:nprofile1qqs0agvxc2jx0rdugdmsfmkjzcyyd698s8jlk9c9d6dmxvuyp4daauspz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezumrpdejz7qgmwaehxw309a6xsetxdaex2um59ehx7um5wgcjucm0d5hsxx5cc2 I don't see an issue with it because they clearly display SHA256.

Let's take Bitwarden latest release for example. This is a sha for the apk from their GitHub repo (copy/paste)

sha256:fc8c8124650665270925648e0ec35bf7336f26058e3bd72eabf41d859727d220

You will see this same sha displayed in zapstore. Makes no huge difference who signs the release if keys match.

This is a misconception and conflation of concepts, but it's my fault for not explaining better (although it has been addressed in the latest Zapstore).

Define signing? Indexed apps on Zapstore are simply caching what is on Github -for discoverability which is nil in Obtainium- and signing a Nostr event with that. They are NOT signing the APK. So in this sense it has the exact same level of risk than Obtainium. I would say less, because on Zapstore you can tell what you are about to install, in Obtainium it's not that clear because of lacking metadata.

By default Zapstore will install from the external/original source, and only fall back if it 404'd:

@nostr:npub1l6scds4yv7xmcsmhqnhdy9sggm520q09lvts2m5mkvecgr2mmmeqsuj5rc we're working on splitting relays for indexed vs developer-signed apps; implementing relay management UI as we speak.

https://github.com/zapstore/zapstore/issues/205

and soon the ability to hide closed source apps:

https://github.com/zapstore/zapstore/issues/197

Hope that brings you back!

That would definitely make it easier to use it the way I'm trying to. The app is otherwise quite nice. Just a maintenance headache for me right now. I appreciate the update.

I assumed you were building the apps from source as a middle man, then signing that binary and storing it somewhere for Zapstore users to download. "Signed by Zapstore" was vague without understanding what was going on in the background. Signing is even more confusing given that it's over Nostr, where we also sign things.

I didn't realize you were just pulling it from the official repo and "signing" it in whatever sense you mean the term.

Or I didn't realize this change was made, if the process has changed. I think the issue is that I felt forced to make assumptions in place of actual understanding. I have concerns about Obtainium too, I just didn't have the whole signing confusion since it's clear that it's being pulled from the link I gave it (with some trust for the software).

Accrescent is also good. Zapstore is best.

There is no second best.

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Please explain to me: what's bad with Obtanium?

Nothing if you (1) can and (2) want to use it. I merely suggested an alternative path.

Yeah, I’ll stay with iOS.😝

I've forced myself into the habit of using mobile website versions and PWAs as much as possible. I've found multiple apps that seem to just be web views anyway.

I've said for years that Google would eventually rug us FOSS people. They already did with the standard apps like gallery, messages, etc.

I think we're approaching the time when we either fork off or give in. But as you said, even that won't solve for the proprietary services most apps are using now. Even some of our beloved apps (see Phoenix) still push Google Play Services for full functionality. That's a big reason I left Proton for Tuta.

I want a Linux phone that will seemingly never work out. I'm tired of all the bullshit and these once productive devices are increasingly cage-like.

Challenge accepted

Is all this drama just because these devs don’t want to submit some ID to google to publish their app?

That’s the surface-level version, yeah.

But it’s not “just some ID.” It’s the start of identity gating by default for app distribution on certified Android devices—ala Apple. That changes who can publish, how apps get distributed, and what kinds of tools are even allowed to exist.

Obtainium isn’t “dying.” It’s being pushed out of the Play-services-backed distribution path on certified Android devices. It still works on non-certified OSes like GrapheneOS running on the same hardware. That’s the point—it’s a clear, concrete example of the shift from permissionless sideloading to attested, identity-linked distribution.

The Pixel driver thing is a separate issue. With Android 16, Google stopped publishing the full Pixel device trees and driver binaries in AOSP, which forces custom ROM devs to reverse-engineer hardware support or rely on old binaries. That’s hostile and annoying, but it’s ultimately a hardware choice problem—projects can move off Pixels or work around it.

This one isn’t. This one changes the model.

We need to draw down the price to get #graphineos factory installed. It is super easy to do yourself, but super expensive to have it done.

If I thought there was a market for them, I could substantially automate installing it. But most normies are afraid of freedom...

I think it is a trust issue. They 'trust' google/apple, and think 'scam' for everything else. Whoever does it needs to have good branding.

Yup.

And those that don't trust Apple & Google, don't want to trust anything, and refuse to read.

I installed lineageos for a few randos as a service on eBay before eBay locked down their compliance requirements, and the customer thought he was better off not updating his firmware.

I think maybe he thought the 'virus' was in the updates.

People are completely disconnected from reality.

The bootloader "scare" message doing its job, keeping frightened normies on the plantation :/

Firmware not free until the bootloader is, sadly...

Lineageos was a pain to update.

No he sounded like the type that was disabling Windows Updates. He didn't trust anything.

Checks out

They are so fucked with their software wall. Ai is going to rip it down

Maybe we should just throw away our fucking phones. This is a grand bait and switch.

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Yes.

Looking more like Ayyva now 😆

Tarkov vibes. 🤫

Tits

Gangsta Chick

Why do they do it? What is the source of this? It looks to me like Google and the manufacturers jumped on the EU regulations (European Union's Radio Equipment Directive RED) and went completely banshee with it. They claim that they have to do all kinds of things like close bootloaders and prevent sideloading, while in reality RED is pretty vague and does not explicitly require it: "(d) radio equipment does not harm the network or its functioning nor misuse network resources, thereby causing an unacceptable degradation of service;

(e) radio equipment incorporates safeguards to ensure that the personal data and privacy of the user and of the subscriber are protected;

(f) radio equipment supports certain features ensuring protection from fraud." I really don't understand the motivation to go full throttle instead of doing the minimum to comply. It will not cut their costs or bring them more customers...

I'm glad I've been migrating everything digital too open source stuff for like a year and a half