@MoneroFees
Updated Bitcoin vs Monero transaction fees:
#Bitcoin: 0.2773 USD
#Monero: 0.00488 USD
It costs ~5579.7% more to transact on bitcoin with 0 privacy!
Switch to #Monero where you don't have to pay large tx fees or get arrested for your transaction history!
privacy doesn't get you anywhere if you failed with the money part. good luck auditing monero or verifying any of the properties which would make it be good money
Gold and cash are private and fungible like Monero. Bitcoin isn't.
Gold has been money for thousands of years. Cash is a $100 trillion market cap. Bitcoin is barely over $1 trillion.
You can't directly audit circulating supply for gold or cash either.
I think we'll be ok.
If you want to audit then run a node like you do with Bitcoin, dumb dumb.
You wan't us to believe you are combing through input/outputs of 1billion+ transactions on Bitcoin? Please. You just run a node and don't even pay attention.
You say that as if those are the only prerequisites for money. They're not, and you fail at the other aspects of money compared to bitcoin. There is no way to verify total supply. People could be creating more. That is the whole reason bitcoin exists is to stop the infinite printing vampirism. Just learn how to use bitcoin pseudonymously. You can be anon just fine.
Do you have any historical examples of money that have the unprecedented transparency of Bitcoin? You're talking about a world of theories, but I'm showing you real examples that contradict everything you are saying like gold. You can't verify total supply of that either and that didn't stop it from being money for several millennia.
Money is the most saleable good. Neither Bitcoin nor Monero are money.
Where is the "printing vampirism" in Monero? It requires PoW just like Bitcoin. You can't arbitrarily or centrally *poof* Monero into existence.
You fail to understand the difference between anonymity and privacy. You can be kind of anonymous (pseudonymous) on Bitcoin, but it's a transparent ledger. Bitcoin isn't private.
AFAIK there is no way to verify total supply which means there could easily be groups printing it or hoarding premines just like the Fed. You can't have your cake (privacy) and eat it too (verifiability). Gold is doomed vs. Bitcoin because of this, and I don't see how Monero is different. XMR/BTC seems to agree.
In general I think privacy is great so if you want to bet on Monero that's fine. There can be a case for both maybe, but Lightning etc. can be highly 'safe' or however you want to define it. Bitcoin obviously is the SoV king either way.
I think we would indirectly know someone was printing hoards of it by the price tanking towards zero in a short amount of time.
I agree you can't have your cake and eat it too. Both have trade offs. I just think the perceived advantage of being able to directly audit Bitcoin is not as strong in practice (few users run nodes, even fewer pay attention to what is going on with inputs/outputs. Everyone except the latter group is trusting)
Gold still has 10x mcap of Bitcoin. I guess that is yet to be seen.
I'm not betting I'm just trying to use the appropriate tools for the task. A hammer is not ideal for every job.
Markets are capricious. CDs and cassette tapes were sought after and ubiquitous until they werent. Supply can be fixed, but demand can't. Value is subjective.
As far as I'm concerned, this whole BTC vs XMR debate is silly. Or at least, the common BTC maxi position completely excluding any use case for anything other than BTC is.
Is anyone talking about using XMR to store wealth long term? Maybe there are some, I don't doubt it. But that's not what I see most commonly.
People seem to advocate for XMR as a privacy tool for exchanges, often explicitly describing it as a complement to BTC's SoV use. To me, that makes total sense and is something I can see myself doing, if I ever find myself needed private spending in the future.
In that light, the hypothetical long term depreciation of XMR vs BTC is irrelevant, because XMR wouldn't be used long term. You just buy some XMR with BTC when you have to spend it, and keep your savings in BTC all the same.
It's exactly the same with fiat, which I keep arguing that will never go away for this exact same reason: it doesn't matter at all that it depreciates vs BTC -- unless you get to a hyperinflation kind of scenario when not only the SoV function of fiat no longer holds, but its the unit of account function ceases to exist as well.
The argument for XMR as currency vs fiat is privacy. So three things, to summarize:
1. BTC as SoV
2. Fiat as unit of account and medium of exchange with no privacy
3. XMR as medium of exchange with privacy
That's how I see things at least.
A voice of reason. Thing is, very few are using BTC, even fewer are using XMR. Lightning is already providing pretty good privacy for extremely low fees.
I struggle to see the practical use case for XMR. I'm not a fan of eCash, but I think it serves this role for privacy in better way within the predominant infrastructure.
My only gripe is that it seems too easy to devolve into fractional reserve shitcoinery.
I include myself in that group -- I don't use either BTC or XMR as currency. I save in BTC, full-on, everything I can spare every month, I'm literally zero fiat, my bank accounts are kept at zero (in fact, my net worth is negative, if I disregard my BTC).
At the moment, fiat works perfectly fine for me, for the things I do daily: groceries, rent, entertainment, etc. With P2P markets, it works reasonably well even for stacking clean sats (sats that are not directly KYC-contaminated).
I am convinced in the not so distant future, when CBDC's are implemented, or AI is more heavily deployed by the State-Corporation conglomerate to fully track and censor even those trivial uses, I will have to resort to a private means of exchange.
So what I'm doing now is think about it and have an opinion in my head, so the whole process doesn't catch me with my pants down when shit really hits the fan.
To summarize: that was just my opinion today, and it may well change in the future. What's important is to think ahead.
True, but like nostr:npub159wczz79n0x95p4vq5rggdkhz36u3852n8xfwv3u4ehdylrnr97qnpcsm3 says I believe we can achieve similar levels of privacy by leveraging BTC tools properly, such as lightning.
Yes, I know the argument.
I just don't like giving up custody for privacy, when I can simply use a tool that's private and self-custodial by default.
Fair enough, as long as you're aware that you're potentially trading the value of your savings for convenience. IMO it's incredibly important to explain that whenever promoting Monero.
But I'm not saving in Monero. So I'm not sacrificing my savings or my future purchase power.
And my argument is not convenience, it's self-custody. If I wanted convenience I would spend the BTC I already have, without need to exchange them for Monero or whatever, incurring fees and time costs in the process.
And I'm not promoting Monero, by the way. As much as I am a BTC maxi as far as Store of Value is concerned, I am totally agnostic as far as private currency goes. I think it's an easier problem to solve than SoV, so there are and will be lot of options to pick from.
It's just that Monero is the project that seems to have the best arguments as a private currency. A replacement for fiat cash when it ceases to exist.
I'm more in the Highlander there can only be one camp, given the network effect of currencies. There is logic to your argument, but anyone who copies you without understanding the caveats is liable to get wrecked. That's dangerous IMO. I'd rather promote private use of lightning and avoid the pitfalls.
I see where you're coming from, it's a fair take. And being currency-agnostic, I'm totally open to be convinced about this.
There's time to develop more solutions too. I don't think the shit is hitting the fan just yet. We'll see it happen, just not yet.
