The universe operates under four fundamental forces created at its inception:
gravity
electromagnetism
the strong nuclear force
the weak nuclear force
So . . . where is Time?
Discussion
linked to gravity.
You been watching Interstellar again?
lol. no. 🙂
i was thinking if time is relative to mass and acceleration, it must be inherently linked to gravity.
or at least correlative 🤷
Well, you're right. It is but this poses the question: Is Time a subset of Gravity? It seems, according to literature, that it is not. If this is the case then where did Time come from? If not created at the inception of creation as a subset of Gravity then that suggests Time existed "before". Yet, nothing could exist "before" because "nothing" existed.
time and space are dimensions, they arose at the same time, as nothing started to divide into something
Is Time the First dimension or the Fourth? If time is the First Dimension then it makes a kind of sense: everything follows after.
But, if Time is the fourth dimension (as is generally accepted) then D1-D3 exist without time.
This is the kind of stuff that must make physicists bonkers.
that is actually really interesting. 🤔
i was wondering about quantum entanglement particle communication systems, and the fact that entangled pairs show instantaneous response regardless of distance, which would indicate there are things that bleed over into our reality which aren’t governed by time and space as we understand them.
I think about this very thing.
In another way I think about a star somehow disappearing, mass and all. Given the gravity equation the effect on all other mass is instantaneous. That's FTL for sure.
We know so little.
i believe that it's because gravity is produced by a special quantum state of electrons that are in a formation that i am calling a "binary electron pair" - they trade their electrical charge for mass and form a kind of "gas cloud" around matter and their function is to push matter back together because the fabric of space time is in a constant process of expansion like cell division (you can divide nothing infinitely, right?)
the *effect* we observe as gravity is caused by the same surface tension equalization that you see when two droplets of a liquid join together, once their clouds are sufficiently overlapped, they optimize from the figure 8 shape towards the sphere and thus in doing so move the nucleus of the clouds (the matter) to a common center
lastly, the time of transit of this information is instantaneous because these clouds have no real mass, and thus are not bound by the lightspeed limitation in the transit, and the speed at which they push the two cloud nuclei (the matter we see) at the rate at which the cloud reconfigures into a sphere
the phenomenon of orbiting has to do with the fact that the cloud's shape is distorted in a similar way to how gas comes off a comet when it approaches a star - the nucleus is not in the center, when considered as a static snapshot of its motion, but relative to itself, that shape is actually a sphere, however, as the inertia of each object is different, this allows objects to form orbits with each other, where they never fully come to merging the nucleus via impact, this can continue for a long time especially if other clouds are playing a role in pulling the two masses in opposite directions a lot of the time, and there is a threshold distance called the "gravity well" which if they are not close enough, the inertia and external clouds can maintain an orbit practically forever, as their distorted clouds due to their inertia never line up, always one at an angle away from the other, or like Douglas Adams said in his books "how you fly, is you throw yourself at the ground, and miss"
You are suggesting that Time is an emergent property which I don't disagree with but I have to ask . . . emergent from where? These are fundamental properties of the universe. Emergent or no, where do they have their roots?
i think that matter is emergent, and time is primal, i agree with your idea that time is actually the first dimension
in my visualisation of what our universe is, it is like an artifact that starts as a singularity, and grows (this is reducing the three dimensions down to two) as you go forward, the diameter of the space component continues to increase, at a rate that produces the speed of light, so a square
in this model, energy, aka photons/electrons/beta/alpha etc particles, have two components, or first dimension of time, second dimension of space, thus they form cyclic spinning patterns and the harmonics of their spin rate determines the way that they interact - such as the different ways that different speed photons interact with the different kinds of atoms, which are further complex configurations of primary particles that are caught in orbits with each other, which is also why they can be broken apart when you can push them close enough to the speed of light and into collision, which also can happen by gravity, such as inside a star
also, i didn't make something clear... energy, aka radiative particles, are not actually moving relative to the space matrix, they are like ships with sails, and are pushed along with the expansion force which they convert into forward motion because they are rotating in two dimensions, whereas matter particles have three components of rotational motion, which means they resist the expansion and appear to be staying still, according to themselves
it is the angular orientations of the energy particles that moves the matter particles into new configurations with each other
it is also like teh paradox of the red queen "you have to keep moving forward as fast as you can in order to stay in the same place" because the matrix (i think it was a chess board) is constantly expanding
i agree, time is probably the first dimension, and as i mentioned, it's split into forward and backward to achieve the zero sum that is required for breaking infinity
first there is infinity, aka zero, and then infinity becomes 1, and one becomes 2, and two becomes three, and three begets all things, to misquote the Tao Te Ching
the text of the first chapter of Genesis also hints towards this idea and it is remarkably similar to what is written in the beginning of the book Corpus Hermeticum by Hermes Trimagestus
first you divide the mass from the space, then you divide night from day, so probably actually time is the second dimension, and 1 dimension (a circle) of matter is the first dimension, because you have something and nothing, and then nothing becomes something
this is the meaning of the Tai Chi of taoism also, it represents the first two dimensions and it's made out of a three bit number mathematically, like how you use 3 coins to throw the I Ching, which gives you a 2d space that changes in the third, each "bit" representing the current state and the third bit indicating which direction it is changing, they call them "young yin" and "old yin" and "young yang" and "old yang"
Kant describes time as a way in which our minds can catergorize phenomenea. The human mind is discursive and can't think out of the spontaneous emergence of time and space.
It's in our minds
Time is a construct, derived from entropy.
But I'll also add in a contentious 5th (perhaps, given my own interpretations - 0th) force - agency, strive, desire.
At different capacities of course, and in quite peculiar ways.
if you replace the word "entropy" with the word "chaos" in the sense of chaos theory, then yes
chaos is the beginning, it has all potential but it is nothing, literally
time first starts ticking with a clock of positive and negative
time splits into two, and you get 1 dimension of space
1st dimension splits into 2 and you get 2d of space
2nd dimension spits into 3, and you have a finite, but unbounded volume that we call the universe
then you have a 4th dimension, which creates forms, such as planets and stars and meteorites
then a 5th dimension creates life, made of self-creating patterns of matter that have a birth, life, and death, and then are recycled
then a 6th dimension which gives you what us humans call agency, or free will
then the 7th dimension is what we call enlightnenment or ascension
then the 8th dimension, which is God, encompassing the totality of all that came before it
and the reverse process is happening in the opposite direction of time, which is the hidden source of entropy feeding into our 6 dimensional existence
as a programmer, i just see arrays everywhere, and as an amateur biologist, i see the array elements as cells, and they have many dimensions, thet first three form space and the fourth - half of the fourth, is our forward time, and i forget which formula it was but one of Einstein's formulae has a solution in reverse time... if you can imagine, forward time is what we experience, but reverse time is the source of energy
Time is not a force but a measure, like the other three dimensions. It is special insofar as it only has one direction, what Arthur Eddington famously called „the arrow of time“. As nostr:npub1m3xdppkd0njmrqe2ma8a6ys39zvgp5k8u22mev8xsnqp4nh80srqhqa5sf wrotefurther below, from the perspective of thermodynamics, this directedness comes from entropy. It‘s a tricky subject, though!
Entropy is the decay of order and it that sense it makes a perfect timepiece but the universe was disordered and then congealed into ongoing order . . . or was it?
Was the seething mass of energy that hadn't even formed the first hydrogen atom really "disordered"?
*seizures and eye blinking ensues
That‘s exactly the question! From what I‘ve read, the general consensus seems to be that the universe is moving from an ordered to a disordered (or put differently, to a maximally distributed) state. In this view, the primordial soup really was highly ordered… But I agree that that‘s really a tough (and to large extent also philosophical) question!
We only know time indirectly from measuring movement, earth around the sun, hands around a clock. If everything stopped moving, we would not be able to tell time.
If everything were frozen in place, you couldn’t say how long it were frozen for. One second? A million years? No difference.
Time seems like an emergent property of movement. But I’m starting to think it’s all an emergent property of consciousness without which there is no way to tell whether there’s something or nothing.
Yes, but where did Time come from? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I won't but it's a fascinating question because it appears Time wasn't forged in Creation.
Where the hell did Time come from? It's a dimension so it's not a mental construct as far as I can intuit but it's not a fundamental force from creation?
I might have to stop with this as it's kinda freaking me out a little.
We don't know what forces were created at its inception, we can't go back the far with experiments.
We can go back to the point where electromagnetism and the weak force were combined into a single electroweak force.
Also, gravity is not really considered a force, but the bending of spacetime in response to matter/energy.
Time isn’t a force; it’s a dimension, like space. It’s the framework where those forces play out, not something that pushes or pulls. Think of it as the track, not the car.
Time is subjective 🤷♂️
Time doesn't exist. Every physicist knows this. There is only entropy and causality.