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Irrelevant. Politically speaking, I'm an ultra-minority among my fellow nationals.

points of view are shaped by experience. It's not irrelevant at all. I'm trying to understand why you are applying principles of a civilized society to a nation that was reborn within the last 5 years.

No other western nation upholds the standard you're trying to impose on Bukele. Is it the ideal, of course.

But reality rarely works that way. Do you think Washington is a beacon of chivalry and honor or do you think there's a pretty healthy amount of bribery and corruption?

If that's true of the world's leading democracy, then why do you think Bukele giving warning about bribes and corruption in a nation that was the #1 hotspot for criminality is somehow just his opinion?

Sometimes you have to act according to what you have, not according to what you want.

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hh 1y ago

You would have a point if I had ever in my whole life once said that the US, or any Western nation, are "ideal" or "beacons" of anything.

As a matter of fact, over here on Nostr one of my usual riffs is that the post-WW2 West is basically a Corporatist State regime, with a variety of cosmetic options subject to the specific historical paths of each country (which is why we cannot simply call it what a Corporatist State is, by definition, i.e., fascism).

The former Soviet bloc, being less developed and having a longer history of openly tyrannical regimes, has become a less subtle and more crude version of the same.

So has China finally given in to what the European fascists and "social democrats" recognized one hundred years ago: that the planning is better left to the private sector, and the State can simply "direct" and dictate what "the greater good" is, exactly as we do in the West, but with fewer social constraints on their esthetics of power, since they are still a nominally communist regime with no need for "democracy".

So yes, I can hold Bukele to the same standard I hold the West and anybody else, and call a spade a spade, and a socialist dictator a socialist dictator.

GrumpyGardener 1y ago

You answered a rhetorical question and not a the real one, but I can appreciate that not a single nation on earth meets your ideal.

That being said, I'll ask again. Why do you think Bukele offering a warning about bribes and corruption in what was the #1 hotspot for criminality in the world, somehow just his opinion?

in your opinion, how does one establish order in an area without law and order? What would step #1 be?

hh 1y ago

He did not send a warning about bribes and corruption.

He said he has files on people who incurred in those, and he keeps the files to be used as a blackmail tool to make them do whatever he dictates, for his political convenience. In this case, a a typical Latin American socialist populist dictator measure, namely price controls on foodstuffs. So crime is OK and is not prosecuted, unless it is politically convenient for the Leader.

His opinion is what constitutes "price gouging". There are laws against that. And if there aren't any and he feels price gouging is a problem that he needs to solve, then he should legislate for it. Stating clearly the criteria. If you watch his video, he basically is saying that he is the one who determines what is "reasonable" in terms of price increases and profits. So, yes, his opinion, purely. Again, typical dictator behavior.

GrumpyGardener 1y ago

I think the judgment is a little harsh. He's not doing anything different from any other administration across any nation in the world. He's using the force of the state to bring stability.

It's not usually called blackmail. That's usually reverved for salacious information, but I agree... I kinda boils down to Blackmail. It is how the game is played across the board. It's not ideal, but it is, in fact, the way the game is played.

We do it all the time. It's how intelligence works all over the world. "You know, and I know what you've done. Play nice, or I'll come for you".

Pretty standard stuff.

hh 1y ago

So allow me to remit you to the initial post, in which nostr:nprofile1qy28wumn8ghj7un9d3shjctzd3jjummjvuhszynhwden5te0dehhxarj9ek82tntv5hszxmhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7um5wfcxcetzwvhxxmmd9uq3kamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwdaexzmn8v4cxjmrv9ejx2a30qyvhwumn8ghj7ur4vfkxjcewwfjkccted9hxwtnfduhsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7um5wghxyctwvshsz9thwden5te0dehhxarj9ehhsarj9ejx2a30qy08wumn8ghj7mn0wd68yttsw43zuam9d3kx7unyv4ezumn9wshszythwden5te0dehhxarj9emkjmn99uq36amnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wvf5hgcm0d9hx2u3wwdhkx6tpdshsz9thwden5te0wfjkccte9ejxzmt4wvhxjme0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfnj7qgcwaehxw309ahx7um5wghxvmt59emkj73wvf5h5tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj7qgnwaehxw309ahkvenrdpskjm3wwp6kytcqypec76gcftk6vagq9d58leru360z77c6ye7kly29kyvnxyhe0svw7ap0pad here literally says "He is so different than the others!", which prompted my remarks about how he is not, really. Just like you just said.

GrumpyGardener 1y ago

I mean, the context is completely different. I get it. You don't like the guy and he doesn't pass your personal standards of what constitutes a leader.

If we're going back to the oriinal post, the I agree. He is different. The difference lies in what's promoted. He's not pushing "the narrative". The western "social justice warrior" type of stuff. He's pushing the national identity of his people. Not the bullshit they press on the world through Brussels and the WEF.

But statecraft is still statecraft. You can't pretend you have law and order when you don't. If you don't have law and order, then how do you bring people to justice? You can't. That order has to be established. You do that through strength.

The founding of every nation is done through war and brutality. A nation is forged.

hh 1y ago

From the very first note of mine, to which you initially replied:

"So far, he gets the benefit of the doubt from me because you can't clean up a place like el Salvador with an immaculate libertarian, pro-freedom program. It's just not possible."

GrumpyGardener 1y ago

Do you see an inconsistency here?

GrumpyGardener 1y ago

And I'm not saying you're wrong about the guy. I'm just saying that I'll reserve judgement. The world does not want him to succeed. they want him to fail because of he clears his government and society of corruption, then there's no excuse form the rest of the western world. Their corruption becomes obvious.

Everything they said can't be done, is being done... Brussels can't have that. "You need the IMF and to model your laws after the UN agendas."

He's proving the wrong, and they hate him for it. 🤷‍♂️

I'll wait before condemning him.