That article says the UN inflated the numbers. I don't agree even with that. That article does not say that Hamas reduced their numebrs as you clambed in your earlier notes.

You are claiming Hamas halved their own numbers.

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That does not say they adjusted their estimates. Just that they do not have complete data. Which is to be expected given Israel is basically destroying all health infrastructure including health infrastructure.

From your bio, you appear to be proficient examining data. Let’s back up a second.

If I provide you a set of data, and you have reason to believe I’m motivated to provide inflated numbers and, further, I HAVE provided demonstrably incorrect numbers in the past (see link provided above re: Al Ahli Arab Hospital parking lot and screenshot below in case you can’t read carefully), why would you wholeheartedly accept a new set when I, later, admit to a revision of it as being “incomplete” for almost 50% of the numbers provided?

Your words were:

"...Hamas, itself, has revised that number down by 50% last month?"

I say yet again that Hamas has not revised it's number down. The Gaza Health Authority simply states it does not have complete information of all deathhs as you point out. This is NOT the same as revising their numbers.

As pointed out by others in the thread these numbers are very likely underestimated.

As an actuary, you must look at details, right? The analysts who reviewed the Hamas Health ministry “complete” numbers found that the same exact names were used dozens of times sometimes for males, sometimes for females. Further, again, the numbers place NO distinctions between combatants and civilians.

Let’s say, for the sake of morbid argument, it’s 50%. If so, that’s a 1:1 ratio of combatant to innocent ratio. Maybe if Hamas wasn’t intentionally fighting among its own civilian population, operating in (and firing rockets from) schools, hospitals, and refugee camps, that number might be different. Interesting, no?

And yet, that would still be a civilian death rate far lower than the armed conflicts and wars in Korea, Persian Gulf, or Iraq which were 74%, 88%, and 67%, respectively.

Thus, is it your position that ALL 38,000 of the reported dead are noncombatants?

If not, what percentage would YOU ascribe?

I’ll wait.

Mate you keep changing your argument. I keep pointing out you incorrectly said that Hamas reduced their estimates. They did not.

I am not an expert on Gaza death stats. But you claimed something and it simply wasn't true.

I can tell you if you have no functional health system getting accurate and complete data is difficult. The IDF has destroyed the needed infrastructure. The IDF claims it's keeping track of Hamas being killed but can't keep track of civilian deaths. That seems odd for someone being careful with civilian deaths.

I’m not changing the argument. I’m enhancing it for you. You think you have me in some gotcha because I made a claim that I can’t back up. I’m explaining what I mean by “Hamas revised their numbers down by half” by showing HOW they admitted half their data is incomplete, often using duplicate entries, and WHY they have motivation to do so including providing one incident where they inflated the numbers by far more than half — an incident it later turned out was perpetrated by Hamas’ own fighters which they blamed on Israel. You know it took Israel MONTHS to confirm the number of dead from 10/7? Hamas frequently claims hundreds of people died within minutes/hours?

If you can’t see this, I don’t know what to tell you.

How can you change the meaning of the words??? They may have incomplete information for some of these. They DID NOT REVISE their numbers down by half!

I'm saying the data can be incomplete and be correct. Also it's understandable that things can be incomplete given what Israel has done to Gaza.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-deaths-women-children-360c6aabc03421c718d4a8452cec2c67

I mean, did you thoroughly read the article you just linked? It proves MY point about duplicate entries.

“The data provided to AP was imperfect in other ways. Among those people fully identified, some were listed twice by the ministry.“ Over 500 people in March, alone.

Okay, let’s try it another way. If I provide a number to the media and then later say that 50% of those records are, well, incomplete, you’re saying that’s not the same as revising the number down by half. You saying it’s okay to provide incomplete data because of the fog of war.

That’s NOT how fatality reporting works.

I’ve already shown you the implausibility of their figures, the impossibility of arriving at accurate numbers so quickly, and at least one actual example of a number (500 in a hospital) that was blamed on Israel, which was revised down (to 100-300), and later found to be the responsibility of Hamas’ own rockets hitting it’s own armaments depot in the parking lot of said hospital. And yet you continue to swallow their numbers as gospel?

I shudder to imagine the double standards that would be applied to Israel if they claimed a higher number of casualties and then said their records were “incomplete” when examined.

To wit, Hamas sympathizers deny the *actual* atrocities committed on 10/7 (murders, rapes, beheadings, and immolations) even as they were live streaming and celebrating them.

This whole this is just so twisted.

"Its count includes bodies that have not been claimed by families, or were decomposed beyond recognition, or whose records were lost in Israeli raids on hospitals -- plus individuals with incomplete records."

So the records are not complete but it does not mean they do not have a dead person!

They have not revised their figures by half! What you said is simply plainly wrong!

Hamas is quoted in the WSJ that they rely on the media for some of their numbers, while the media also relies on Hamas for the numbers.

“Yet in a series of lengthy reports, the ministry admits that the figures the media treat as authoritative rely in part on reporting from . . . the media.“ https://www.wsj.com/articles/hamass-numbers-games-civilian-death-counts-casualty-data-b99140eb

It’s simply circular.

But, since you seem to be completely stuck on my statement that “Hamas revised its numbers down by half,” let’s look at what the UN said.

The UN says it is now relying on figures from the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza, rather than from the Hamas-run Government Media Office (GMO).

This is based on missing information and dubious reporting.

"It's not logically impossible... but it really strains credibility," says Prof Michael Spagat, who specialises in examining death tolls in conflicts around the world.

You raise 100s of other points but I have continuosly simply argued one point: You have wrongly stated they revised their figures by half. This does not address anything about the general accuracy of their figures or anything like that.

This is a very very simple point and if you cannot argue based on this simple point I am very sure you simply are inable to argue anything sensible on any of the other more complicated points you raise. I am done with this conversation.

Very plainly, the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza, reduced the confirmed number down 50% from what the Hamas-run Government Media Office (GMO) had previously reported.

When I said, “Hamas revised its numbers down by half,” THIS IS WHAT I AM REFERRING TO.