I've run into debilitating technical issues multiple times where lightning wasn't working. Mostly with Zeus. Mutiny, CLN through green, or my own lightning node. It's this sort of mentality that everyone who disagrees is subpar that drives people to use other options.
The truth is, if you've not dealt with failed payments or forced closures, 1. you're lucky and 2. you're arguments for everyone else who has had issues are complete horse💩
There are a lot of poor and buggy implementations of Lightning. That doesn’t mean the concept itself is a failure, but the process of getting to something that works for the most people in a decentralized way has been messy.
Agreed, self-custody Lightning has improved, but it's still nowhere near where it needs to be to be easy for a newcomer.
I’ll give just one example of many:
Yesterday I met someone who still had around 50,000 sats stuck in BlueWallet after their public node shut down over a year ago. There was effectively no communication other than a single blog post about it. He’s one of an untold number of people who had no idea why he couldn’t access his balance and it made him think that Lightning itself was completely broken.
Yeah, but my only point is that when technical people tell me they can't get Lightning to work, they lose me, because I am not technical and can. Trust me, I have tested so many Lightning wallets and have had force closes, etc. I am well aware of the shortcomings and frustrations, but to say it doesn't work is false, and to say you can't get it to work is hard to believe. It's more like you have another vision of what you want Bitcoin to do, and you refuse to even put in the time to understand or use the other thing.
Yes, the early bitcoiners split into different camps and each one has an agenda or a narrative that they uphold. We are never going back to the big block hard fork and on-chain-only scaling, but layer 2 has become too dependent on centralized infrastructure. I don’t know what the solution for that is.
Fair, I agree that aspects of layer 2 have centralized more than we all would like. I also do not know the solution. I'll continue to run my lightning node to do my small part 😂
i dont believe the concept is a failure at all, im not siding with those who claim its useless, im simply not going to pretend that people don't have problems with it cause that is a quick way to lose everyone who does to alternatives.
Yes, I’m a big advocate for Lightning but the self custody aspect is not easy for most people to manage.
Amir is technical; I don't buy that he can't get it to work because I am not, and I can. I never mentioned Lightning being perfect, and I even mentioned that I can understand disappointment in its current state, but once someone tells me it they can't get it to work period, you lose me.
that was technically directed towards nostr:npub1vxlhjzeqjjhmqdy4e8sndt8kzklqlnxzew2mtt8mtakvalsckp3qa0gnvx comment 😅
After rereading it, i see that i need to go back to my basement and deal with my teauma offline lol
sorry yall
No worries 😂
Honestly, do you think that using something else will allow you to do less work on your own and receive a greater experience; while simultaneously making it safe for use? No.
In order to receive the benefits of something, you have to put in the work.
if you trusted a custodial app, you didn’t put in the work.
If you had a channel force close on you, you didn’t put in the work.
If your personal node drops off line, you didn’t put in the work to keep it online.
If you had a payment fail, using ZEUS, you should’ve had a back up plan, in other words, you didn’t put in the work.
Layer two’s rug, that’s common knowledge. But when you take self sovereignty, in order to keep the HARDEST money on earth online at all times, you would hope it’s not the EASIEST thing to do.
But just because it’s not easy doesn’t mean it’s dead
