Subnostr

lightning is NOT bitcoin.

lightning is a seperate network, a centralized layer on top of bitcoin.

the billionaires operating lightning want you to think that it is bitcoin. michael saylor, the ex twitter guy, caty wood all pushing lightning making it look like bitcoin.

last year i opened an umbrel node, wrote down the seed and funded it. the computer crashed and i installed a new distro. with bitcoin this would not create any problem. you put the seed words into any bitcoin app and voila your funds are restored no matter what hardware or what software you use. that is what i thought when i used umbrel.

but this does not work with lightning. you put in your seed words into umbrel and it restores your node. but it does not restore your channels. now they have a backup of your channels integrated into umbrel but this does not seem to work when you close the channel before the money arrives onchain. they have bugs in their system. it is broken causing customers to lose funds.

last year i went to the umbrel forum asking for help to retrieve my funds. one programmer there told me that i had done everything wrong and everything was my fault.

this is a typical reaction of bad programmer who develop a faulty system. accusing the user, the customer , if it does not work or if it is made too complicated to use.

i have not done anything wrong. i have installed umbrel, opened a channel and funded it. i was aware that umbrel is experimental and they even tell you that you can lose your funds.

be very careful. lightning is not bitcoin. you can lose your funds easily

Nice and Kind Vic 2y ago

Bitcoin on lightning channels is Bitcoin.

Lightning implemetations are still going through their paces but we're at the tail end of #reckless. It's fairly safe with backups but edge cases of issues exist. If you have backups of each state change then you should be able to recover funds. If you rely solely on a node package to do the backups for you, then probably not.

There is no single lightning network. There can be separate ones. It's decentralized but in any decentralized network that attains popularity there will be centralized hub custodians making it easy to use but not operate for those that don't want to mess with self sovereign for every use case.

While Umbrel and other node packages try to provide a one stop shop or GUI setup it really helps to have an understanding of Linux and filesystems and the lightning implementation itself to sort out issues.

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Discussion

dr.fred 2y ago

the backup for bitcoin is the seed. if you use bitcoin for many years, you get used of that. remember the seed or write it down somewhere and you are covered

for lightning the seed is NOT the backup.

this is irritating and costs a lot of people a lot of money

Nice and Kind Vic 2y ago

The seed is for onchain funds of you only. Not for the multisig wallet transactions established for channels. That's documented and the reason to backup

dr.fred 2y ago

from the funding wallet i have requested a closing of the channel and a refund of my money. the wallet shows the amount as refundable, shows the correct value, says channel shutting down and even asked to where. i was told it can take 14 days, it takes longer than a year now, nothing happened.

lightning is broken. i would not recommend it to anyone. only for very small micro payments where it does not matter

Nice and Kind Vic 2y ago

Do you have the closing transaction(s) or their id(s) ?

Anon 2y ago

Agreed this is why i dont store funds on lightening on my own node