Do people prefer start9 over umbrel?
Discussion
I've used both. I used umbrel when it first launched, I found the UI nice but the system itself was unstable. This may have been a hardware issue, I'm sure it's come on a long way. I use start9 now on good hardware, very stable so far and mostly plug and play. Also, I prefer the start9 license.
I second nostr:npub1dqepr0g4t3ahvnjtnxazvws4rkqjpxl854n29wcew8wph0fmw90qlsmmgt's experience. Especially on the recent (great) stability of Start9. Umbrel has more apps and is still fun.
Umbel was unstable enough for me at version 0.5 on a RPi4 w/ 4GB that I moved away from it and rolled my own setup with Proxmox and Docker. Got frustrated with the maintenance of that system after a year or so and went back to Umbrel (now 1.2) on an old 8th gen Intel mini PC w/ 16GB. performance and stability are way better now. I’m impressed with how far it’s come!
Only used S9. Works well on the right hardware. Pie4 was an issue after a while.
doing due diligence now but hear start9 has better code but see more umbrel in the wild - pending
Going to go against the grain here and suggest Umbrel. I’ve run both, as well as building up from scratch in Ubuntu Server (definitely my preferred route these days).
Start9 is really nice but the preconfigured networking stuff is atrocious and restrictive. In this sense, Umbrel is actually a lot easier.
If you have a firewall, VLANs, etc. don’t use Start9.
100%
I do
My primary issue with Umbrel was its approach to updates. It defaulted to automatic updates for everything and I tired of trying to change that. That approach may be fine for most apps, but I don't think Bitcoin full nodes should be updated automatically. We need most people on the network being actively involved with node management, in my opinion. Each update is effectively a vote, and a policy of automatic voting for the majority of voters seems like a recipe for disaster with something like Bitcoin.
None of that is to say that you shouldn't run a node if you're unwilling to research each update. It could be the case that having a portion of nodes be completely patched and updated is a good thing. I just think having too many is a potential attack vector.
I use the Start9 OS for now, but plan to switch to Parmanode next year.
You may also like nostr:nprofile1qqs044j5pj8jl54pdgjapkpdm9wnhttcjr2rt5tfppy2pfma9zp6g3cpyemhxue69uhkummnw3ez6un9d3shjtnsdp5kc6tsvdexjum5d9skumewvdhk6tcpzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap07g6h76 Parmanode
Agree
Umbrel does not auto-update. They just make it very easy to press ‘yes’.
This. Still, pretty much an auto update 🤣
Updating your node should be an involved process that makes you review changes
Start9 and Umbrel are no different in their approach here. Both use red notification dots and prompt you to upgrade. It’s your choice, but making the UX simple definitely ain’t the problem.
Ultimately the reason people bang on about start9 seems to be primarily due to ten31 investing in them and Odell starting to shill them. If you have a real home network, start9 is a complete pain in the ass.
They even acknowledge it — the next version (0.4.0) is apparently going to fix all the networking issues. I look forward to trying it out.
I recommend running Umbrel, Start9, Parmanode, Microbolt or whatever in Proxmox either way. Backups become super easy, and you can run more than 1 node in your swanky new PC.
Important to note, Start9 doesn't have any networking problems per se, rather they went with a Tor-only approach, whereas many people prefer to expose their services over the clearnet.
With the next version, as you mentioned, they'll be introducing clearnet configuration, for better or worse (I say this as many people don't know how to maintain clearnet infrastructure, but seems to work well for Umbrel so far).
Also shout out for Proxmox - Use it professionally and on all my self-hosted setups, can't go back to anything else.
I don't remember being able to choose which apps updated and which ones didn't when I used Umbrel.
I suppose an all or nothing update policy isn't technically an 'auto update', but it also isn't as simple as you frame it. It wasn't just that they made it easy to update my node or "press 'yes' ", it was that all the updates were tied to a single update button. I did say that I tired of trying to figure it out, meaning that I may just have missed something. Either way, I think the entire design incentivized what *I* consider bad behavior for a Bitcoin node.
I'm also leaning more toward a Bitcoin node being a single use machine, but that isn't for everyone. Do whatever you want.
They also had a less desirable license from what I remember, but that's a point of contention that won't matter for everyone.
Yes
I prefer Start9.
Umbrel worked well for me and no issue with the product. I’m easily distracted so the number of apps was a bit overwhelming.
Moved to Start9, fewer apps, so I wasn’t tempted as much to download this or that. Allowed me to get to know the apps I do have installed, in much greater detail.
I haven’t tried start9 but can say umbrel works well I am running a couple on VMs.
I think the only major advantage using Umbrel was I could configure it with a clearnet address... My current Lightning node is using start9 on Tor only and so far been a good experience. They said they'd have clearnet in the next major update
