Nostr Web Client

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ

the value is not in the stack but its openness, simplicity and infinite flexibility

i'm procrastinating dealing with it but i can assure you bluesky has zero flexibility, all the openings nostr gives you do not exist in their protocol, even though it's "extensible" they have made the branches of its structure extremely rigid and closed - almost none of the nodes are able to sprout a new limb

Laeserin 1y ago

Yes, but that is what adds significant value to Nostr _for you_ as a dev. It is not what adds significant value _for the user_ . And value has to be significant, to overcome the cost of adoption or switching, for the majority of potential users. You have to fight user inertia.

What it can do is open up your ability to design novel features or workflows that wouldn't be efficient under a different protocol. Things you can demonstrate concretely and get a "wow" effect out of them.

My point is that they shouldn't have to understand or care about Nostr itself, to be wowed.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

which is why working instant messaging should be a top priority

Laeserin 1y ago

In our domain, it's actually threading of conversations that has to be 🎯, because of the financial cost of missing an important part of the discussion.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

That makes notifications UX even more important to nail.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

that's client side

i'd argue that should be a standalone app, living in your system tray, running in the background

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

Your notification app = Your daily driver

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

making a notification app would be pretty simple to do

most of the twitter clones have avoided it because most users have too many follows and it would be absurdly noisy

unfortunately i'm busy, but i can see how it would be done

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

hell, i'd get a notification every minute or two and i only have 100 follows

I would really like to see at least a red dot for notifications in nostrudel I don’t want push notifications but they would be nice to.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

well they could be a separate app, that's the thing

and teh app could have rulesets you can define, like users or tags, and you could set focus times as well

Seems good to me

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

Communities fixes this.

I.e. you choose per community what you want to be notified about and can actuallv target your attention and energy.

This is my dream:

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzp22rfmsktmgpk2rtan7zwu00zuzax5maq5dnsu5g3xxvqr2u3pd7qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjt3s0p3ksct59e3k7mf0qy88wumn8ghj77tpvf6jumt99uqzqafhnzxvjkgtyjs4xsymdhda0308a8zaeapwvh86ms8ejkzuc3x5n6prce

Laeserin 1y ago

Although not all notifications are from communities. I use, for example, ngit and gitworkshop. I would like to be interrupted a by "new issue on your repo" notifications.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

communities themselves are a criteria, message types can be a criteria (easier if you make a tag to mark them, this is the mechanics of filters)

and sometimes you need to turn them off, either permanently or temporarily, permanently tends to a be a bad thing for work but not giving the option is also bad (probably the compromise is to have a field with "specified time period" so you can put a year on things if you are really sure you don't care

also would be important to stash this data on the relay for you to retrieve in an application specific data blob

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

also just pointing out, notifications don't have to be a specific event type, it is just a filter that polls for events and flips a toggle when a match comes up

"communities" is not a singular reason for notifications nor is anything... DMs are a commonly needed one, and focus topics and focus threads are others, so there's quite a list of things that need to be watched for

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

I thought if all of this and a chat-like UX accounts for all of it. So far.

Laeserin 1y ago

Did you account for someone wanting to see all notifications from multiple npubs in one view? Because I desperately want that. 😂

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

No, but I wonder if that's even necessary if:

1. You have less need of spinning up different npubs because you can partition your content consumption and publication across community. As in: I don't need to spin up a different npub for my posts about coding, design or music. I just post I'm different communities.

2. If you have seamless profile switching built-in. If I spin up a different npub, it's going to be for a company, organisation, music band, ... and I'd like to be able to not have all those notifications in my face over the weekend by default.

But, If you do really want everything at one glance, I'm not designing for that no. I'm designing for easy/fast access and management. That means having notifications and necessary sctions in the same app. That in turn means splitting things by noub by default.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

nostr:nprofile1qydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcprpmhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0qyw8wumn8ghj7argv43kjarpv3jkctnwdaehgu339e3k7mf0qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcqyrwkvn27gqtyxw5v660sqkhpfqyqgdgh3x6emed0qcnkmejkx0f3jk66zyg he doesn't get it at all

Laeserin 1y ago

Well, that's okay. Just means we'll need another app.

Laeserin 1y ago

I've mentioned before that I'd like a notification app with settings for every channel. Could specify down to user, like with Teams. Then your group SysAdmin npub that autoposts from your build service always comes through and goes straight to the top with a ❗and the normal work account is suppressed outside of business hours.

Laeserin 1y ago

there's an event kind for storing application data

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

Those repos are published in communities (👉 relays).

If you say yes to "issues" from "gitworkshoppers" you have what you describe, no?

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

relays as a blanket source is a possible mapping but it seems like an extremely broad net

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

I'm just saying it's a great (and computation-light) place to start before coming up with all sorts of computation-heavy algos.

Laeserin 1y ago

Ah, I see. Took me a minute. Someone could have an app that let's them manage their various communities, including communities only they are a member of, as if they were topic channels. Then you could manually curate the content and settings of your devstuff channel, your foodstuff channel, your homeschooling channel, but also the private GitCitadel channel that you share with the whole team and the public BibleStudy channel that all your Christianity-interested frens and frenemies are in and the semi-public GoDevs channel that you share with Mleku and Fiatjaf.

Like Teams or Slack does.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

Yup 💯

Laeserin 1y ago

Okay, so that model has the

Community: group of npubs≥1 defined by some relationship or topic

Channel: communication definition for the community, minimum one channel per community

One person/entity may have more than one npub and they may reside in different channels, but they can all be managed within one community-viewer, with community interaction limited to the npubs defined for that particular channel

Laeserin 1y ago

I guess, then the only interaction that doesn't take place within a channel is DMs, right? Everything else would ideally be allocated. Or are DMs just in "Personal Channel for Npubbunchofnumbers", along with a little private notepad, list of articles to read, mailbox settings, etc.?

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

Yeah, if I have a DM chat with my wife, there's no reason why it could not also have our family calendar, Collab docs, music, movies, ...

Even just for yourself it can be seen as a community of one.

Seeing things as relays/communities all the way down is the easiest way to let normies handle and understand all this. Myself very much included.

Laeserin 1y ago

We're all used to that format from our current apps.

Laeserin 1y ago

I can see how Nostr adds value to that, over something like Teams or Slack, as we don't have to tie one user to one account. They can see everything together and we allow them to select one of the predefined accounts for that channel when signing.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

there is nothing computation heavy about crafting filters to match a notification configuration, incredibly light, not even much memory

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

What is an issue btw?

In terms of event kind and content? A reply with markdown or sth?

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

you need to think more abstractly about what a person might want to be notified about

an issue is a post, that is tied to an event that you created the root of, it tags the event and thus you would set up a filter that looks for events that tag roots (repos) that you want to monitor, and possibly, not ones of people you have muted

and mutes, they are so broad, you may not want to read someone's war and peace posts on demand in your issues but usually enjoy their long form posts, for example

so, notification engines need to be complex by nature, highly configurable, with sensible defaults that don't give you notification fatigue too quickly... and temporary ignores that can quickly be set up when you need to focus, generally, or just not see some particular thing

Laeserin 1y ago

Yeah, it is a repo-tagging note, that are commonly used to file bug reports or feature requests. So, I find it sort of annoying that I'm currently not being interrupted in my chit-chat about lasagne recipes by

~~~

User npubbunchofnumbers just posted the issue on your GitCitadel repo:

"Hey, help! Tried to use Alexandria and all I see is a 404 error! My colleagues all see the same error!"

~~~

Like. That might be important. Please interrupt me with that. Please. Please.

Laeserin 1y ago

Whereas a feature request like "Would be nifty if Alexandria automatically generated a clickable index for every longer collection. 🤔 " is interesting, but right now I want to talk about lasagna.

Letting users decide usually ends up with everything being labeled a bug, since those get instant responses. So, you'd need AI to analyze and auto-label the content.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

yes, don't let users dictate your feature set that much... put em on a triage until it makes sense

Laeserin 1y ago

LOL

nostr:nevent1qqs07q5ctzqun7yt4eqyhzfzu95ct0qc3cgpq39hmel82qczl8fn3xqprfmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdaksygxavex4usqkgvage45lqpdwzjqgqs630zd4nhj67p38dhn9vv7nryjjtg6h

Laeserin 1y ago

nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn nostr:npub1m3xdppkd0njmrqe2ma8a6ys39zvgp5k8u22mev8xsnqp4nh80srqhqa5sf

Just saying.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

btw, repo posts in UI should render markdown

Laeserin 1y ago

nostr:npub15qydau2hjma6ngxkl2cyar74wzyjshvl65za5k5rl69264ar2exs5cyejr

⛩oizen 1y ago

but also put render markdown over normie ui at compose post

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

devs are definitely not normie level - almost everyone who can write code can write markdown

and if you can't, plaintext renders just fine as markdown too, so long as you put double line breaks

⛩oizen 1y ago

its lacking at highlighters and yakihonne as far as i could tell

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

yes, for code fences and code and preformatted blocks, these are staples of coder comments

Laeserin 1y ago

Wow, good point.

Laeserin 1y ago

Should it be "for issues and proposal cover letters"?

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

at least for issue threads and gists

Laeserin 1y ago

gists?

Laeserin 1y ago

Made an issue

nostr:nevent1qqstzh2yvdp06v98fqdyde7qpyjuwrgqlg8mg8h3twlxnk8pnt2huvqpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzphtxf40yq9jr82xdd8cqtts5szqyx5tcndvaukhsvfmduetr85cetjmelr

Laeserin 1y ago

Accidentally posted it under the wrong repo, at first, sorry.

Laeserin 1y ago

Love red dots. 🤩

MichaelJ 1y ago

The value added for Nostr is that all the apps agree, more or less, on the underlying data structure. So a standalone notification app makes sense. It lets you preview and prioritize incoming notifications, then open and interact with the content in whatever specialized app is the best fit.

Non-Nostr apps can't really do that. At best you have to wrangle a bunch of different logins and unique APIs for all of your apps.

It's like the Windows notification center, but you can take it anywhere (especially if you can access the notifications tool as a web or mobile dashboard).

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

Notifications specifically targeted at you come down to:

- replies

- zaps

- shares

- mentions

- DM's

- requests with a yes/no answer

That's 99% of it and to handle these things I don't want to open another app (for replying, reacting, zapping, ...).

For opening newly published types of content that's high signal to you, the "open with app XXX" scenario makes way more sense.

Niel Liesmons 1y ago

A lot of it comes down to messages not having:

1. A target audience

2. A price

Once they do, determining which messages you're willing to miss out gets a lot easier.

Laeserin 1y ago

Yes, targeting and price are essential. That's why I always read my zap notes. They paid to say that!

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

work related is always important... sometimes coworkers are annoying but mostly they go through phases, if it gets bad it's not hard to show an administrator and get this person pulled into line

Tim Bouma 1y ago

Still lots of experimentation. My hunch is that ‘better social media’ though the first use case, might not be the killer use case. For me, I’m exploring new possibilities- likely 99% are duds for compelling use cases, but you never know.

Laeserin 1y ago

Social media was the impetus, so we wouldn't be here without the Great Twitter Rebellion.

But now we're here.

Tim Bouma 1y ago

Yup, exactly. For that I am grateful. But I think there is something bigger - I haven’t put my finger on it yet, but I feel it in my bones.