Nostr Web Client

It's very easy to create new projects, so we get shiny thing syndrome. Meanwhile, fixing the important problems (key migration, push notifications, relay selection outside the outbox model, exposing relay policies to users and clients, also great UX, cooperating with other developers on a single project) are really hard. There's still plenty of room for experimentation, but we do need some professional projects to be build. I'm attempting to do that with https://flotilla.social right now, but there's a long way to go.

tree 木 3w ago

TBH, this feels more sociological for me, than technical. The protocol seems optimized for alignment over accessibility. When Nostr is so tightly coupled to Bitcoin maximalism and Lightning Network, both of which filter out huge portions of potential users, then the technical improvements its not so relevant..

For example, the Bluesky team intentionally hides their crypto background and publicly avoids connecting their protocol to any blockchain - specifically to not repel people who are brainwashed by current institutions that "bitcoin/crypto is a scam". I'm not saying Nostr should do the same, but maybe that deep Nostr & Bitcoin connection can be one of the potential reasons for this stagnation.

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Discussion

hodlbod 3w ago

Yep, we have no marketing team, so the public image is a bit of a tragedy of the commons. At the same time, all it takes is one really good app to kick start the network effect. DiVine has a chance at this maybe. Primal is the best brand in the space, but I don't actually think they can do it since the product is predicated on the broadcast social media case. Flotilla I think can work this way if I can execute on it, since users can migrate in small groups without being bothered by an existing culture.

tree 木 3w ago

Bluesky didn't have any marketing either, as far as I know. It's really about network effects. I experienced that 40k→40M growth myself, and I really think it really helps there were zero cultural obligations.

There was genuinely diverse population regarding hobbies and expertise even when it was a similar size to Nostr, so new people didn't feel ashamed if they had unpopular interests. Here it looks like Bitcoin monoculture vs a few random other people.

The irony is that Nostr itself is agnostic - the protocol doesn't care about Bitcoin or politics. But the cultural monoculture contradicts the infrastructure's neutrality, and that's what drives people away.

hodlbod 3w ago

Bluesky's marketing department was Elon Musk. But your observations about nostr are true. At the same time, I'm not that worried about it, so long as 1. the best tech wins and 2. I can build a sustainable business on the protocol while staying decentralized. On the other other hand I recognize that "build it and they will come" is delusional. It all just depends on what the goals for the protocol are, and those vary widely.

tree 木 3w ago

I think best tech wins on an open, unregulated market - not when most of your potential customers are institutionalized like in current democracies. If people are conditioned to rely on institutions and can't even recognize alternatives, then technical superiority is irrelevant.

atyh 3w ago

gen z seems to be going with public libraries, group dinners, and analog, instead of protocols. which i kinda love. but kinda dont.

hodlbod 3w ago

Based but also maybe a loser strategy

atyh 3w ago

depends on what they are losing i suppose 🤷

tree 木 3w ago

Social networks are something intuitively graspable by normal people - you post, you follow, you interact. But Bitcoin or any other crypto isn't. That's literally the opposite of what people are used to - it's a complex paradigm shift that needs weeks or months of studying. Tying these two things together closes the door to far too many people.

Bluesky showed that people ARE hungry for alternatives - it grew from 40k users to 40M. Nostr could have caught a lot of these people, but didn't.

Ryan 3w ago

Blue sky was also pushed hard by the MSM and had a huge astroturfing campaign on Reddit. Nostr didn't have this, while having funding levels that are a couple of orders of magnitude less.

I came to Nostr with zero Bitcoin knowledge of history. I stayed because I found people I liked. If ask you see on Nostr is Bitcoin Maxi's, that's on you for who you follow and interact with.

tree 木 3w ago

It's not just about who you follow. The whole ecosystem is tied to Bitcoin, clients are Lightning-only, zaps, payments, everything. Are there even Nostr developers who aren't bitcoiners? I believe there are maybe some exceptions, but that proves my point a little.

And I'm not advocating to replace Bitcoin with something else, I'm saying separate the protocol from monetary systems entirely and welcome diversity.

Ryan 3w ago

There have been forks of various clients that included other currencies, mostly Monero. It's not inherently tied to Bitcoin, though most apps include the feature because it's what their users want.

Some clients don't even have zaps x21.social & nos.social for instance.

ABH3PO 3w ago

I wasnt a bitcoiner when I started on nostr if I became one thats just a testament to bitcoin, should we force people to believe what is not true?

I run formstr.app which has nothing to do with bitcoin, except that you can buy custom URLs with it, but you'll also be able to do that with FIAT soon.