Nostr Web Client

Everyone keeps complaining about how nostr:npub1sqzr42dj8vx32yd5jcvvl3ytux45kl0etgf6y2ymjvmd7lqmuwmqk9vk7v has to implement some form of KYC to be able to keep operating under the Swiss law.

While I’m not a huge fan of KYC either, I believe it’s a necessity to keep a business running (of course) and to get #bitcoin to the masses.

In my opinion Bitcoin should be regulated in some way at least. Otherwise we’ll never have mass adoption.

Ofcourse there are still other ways to stack sats, but I don’t have any experience with them. I might check them out some day…

I like ease of use, good customer service and a respectable team. In my opinion, as a European Bitcoiner there’s no better service out there (yet?)

I’ll keep using Relai for now.

But you do you.

✌🏻

#bitcoin #btc #kyc #relai #relaiapp #buybitcoin #stacksats

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

ΚΞVΙΠ FLΥΠΠ 1y ago

There are a few benefits to using KYC, but these tinfoil hat wearers only care about privacy. 🤦🏻‍♂️

ObjectiF MooN⚡️₿ 1y ago

Do you write this same comment to all nostriches who choose freedom and control of privacy? 😆

binsky 1y ago

? 😄

ObjectiF MooN⚡️₿ 1y ago

He told me i was wearing a tin foil hat earlier today 🤣

binsky 1y ago

Oh haha gotcha!

ΚΞVΙΠ FLΥΠΠ 1y ago

I have no problem with privacy but I am not going to actively hamper my experience to get it

ObjectiF MooN⚡️₿ 1y ago

It's respectable, personally I don't mind a few detours for better privacy, especially now it's not so difficult.

It's the jews. 1y ago

I disagree. The financial system is rigged, the people running it are evil, and giving them any say over how we run Bitcoin seems shortsighted. What we should do is distribute freedom technology and NEVER comply with anything that even smells like their ridiculous orwellian control again.

Relai 🇨🇭 1y ago

So the solution would be for us to shut down, lay off 30 people and abandon our 100+K users?

It doesn't sound reasonable

ObjectiF MooN⚡️₿ 1y ago

It's understandable that you won't let go everything you've built up to now. It's just sad for the users who are here especially for the no-kyc option.

Unfortunately, this is the fate of many bitcoin apps, except maybe for the services focused on privacy, but they have fewer users, each service has its downside.

binsky 1y ago

Yep. I totally get their decision tbh. But Relai remains a good service.

Uxellodunum 1y ago

You had years of looking at how other exchanges did it.

You chose stakes in fiat, instead of a Bitcoin P2P foundation when your whole business revolves around Bitcoin which allows for P2P, global transactions regardless of the who or where. You could offer a permissionless, open service with amazing UX. Be sovereign. Instead, you'll likely always be at the whims of your fiat masters.

This KYC push was just an initial step for them, and it set a precedent. As we've seen in the past they will pressure you until you're snuffed out.

I am Bitcoin-only, I don't shitcoin and don't even have an avid history with it, but there's a reason the shapeshift exchange is still around today. Years ago they faced the same issue, and realized they had to build into their backend a P2P option. Their exchange went offline for a good few months IIRC, but that downtime allowed them to rebuild, and nowadays they offer both No-KYC and KYC options - This to say, it always stuck with me how this allowed them to take control of their own longevity. No matter how much they have to swap around KYC providers (by being blocked off, or regulatory pressure, or otherwise) their users always have an option, and they will remain in business. Is it infallible? No no, they're not open enough for that. But they're in a much better position to be if the time came.

Des Imoto マキシ 1y ago

Bitcoin is a peer to peer electronic cash system. It inherently can not be regulated. It’s peer to peer, without a third party. It separates money and state. Are you talking about the on-ramps? They are a temporary phenomenon, as, after hyperbitcoinization, one has to earn their #Bitcoin. We can work around attempts to stop or surveillance us in the meantime…

binsky 1y ago

Yea I get the whole idea of #bitcoin I think. I get what you’re saying. We’re still very early. If there’s mass adoption, somewhere in the future, and Bitcoin becomes a standard form of money then there’ll also (somehow) be a form of KYC. I don’t doubt it

AmonRa 1y ago

If they cannot controll our money, how will they eventually enforce their rules upon us?

binsky 1y ago

If #bitcoin gets mass adoption, I don’t know if they can enforce rules upon us. If bitcoin gets mass adoption, there still will only be 21 million.

AmonRa 1y ago

Not if, when 😉

binsky 1y ago

That is something I agree with 😄 mispronounced myself haha

✌🏻

Des Imoto マキシ 1y ago

Never compromise on your principles :)

binsky 1y ago

Sure. Each his own ✌🏻

Uxellodunum 1y ago

"Yea I get the whole idea of #bitcoin I think".

The clear uncertainty in what you type shows a lack of understanding when you say Bitcoin needs regulation - It doesn't because it's self-regulating - Rules with no rulers.

binsky 1y ago

I’m just being honest here 😉 does anyone really, fully understand Bitcoin? I’m adding “I think”, because I get the idea of it. But do I completely understand it already? Nope

Uxellodunum 1y ago

Absolutely, I do get that, but what's being discussed here is precisely longevity of services when they put themselves into a position of having to succumb to regulatory pressures. Bitcoin as-is fixes this through and through, yet there are exchanges today decide to stick to the old ways. I think it's pretty clear you don't need to know everything in Bitcoin to understand that if a solution to such problems presents itself you should probably build on that rather than having this ongoing in-and-out cycle of "Exchange apologizes to users, they fought long and hard against KYC and you should now consider yourself doxxed and tracked".

Uxellodunum 1y ago

"Ofcourse there are still other ways to stack sats, but I don’t have any experience with them. I might check them out some day…"

Then I don't think you have a good enough of the big picture to really say "it's fine".

Let me paint you a picture instead.

If exchanges were built on a Bitcoin standard, they would remain sovereign - Services offered to users regardless of who they are, where they are. I mean, the fact that Relai only added Bitcoin to their balance sheet recently, should've been a clear sign.

If exchanges are not built on a Bitcoin standard, they're inherently discriminatory when you put them side by side with the ethos of Bitcoin and what it allows - P2P Global transactions.

So Bitcoin comes along, allows for this fundamental shift, and yet these exchanges come in and decide "let's do what we've been doing for the past however many decades instead". The clear reason is high stakes in the fiat game.

The exchanges that WILL survive long-term will be P2P exchanges with open source code that are permissionless and no one can stop.

Because they're fully open, could bad actors take advantage and host their own exchange? Absolutely, and is exactly why would-be GOOD actors should be at the forefront of offering such services and making a name for themselves via reputation.

If Relai or any other KYC exchange translated the time and energy they dispense into the fiat world, into PoW for the best damn UX in the P2P market, they'd be gold.

This is why Peach is a close-contender - Unfortunately their backend isn't open, but the fact they're fully P2P ensures their longevity and sovereignty to operate their service with a damn good UX.

Personally, I see Robosats eventually taking the cake due to decentralized coordinators.

binsky 1y ago

Fair point you have there. Nice to have a proper explanation too. I might check out Peach later, been thinking about it for a while tbh, but didn’t really get to it yet.

Thanks ✌🏻