My point was that p2p exchanges have benefits, but privacy aināt one, if you pay with standard fiat rails.
Discussion
with the right tools used in combination with p2p exchanges, they are the most cost efficient and convenient. from the comfort of my own home
and the right tools used afterwards protect your privacy.
But what is the privacy advantage, unless you go to lengths to have non traceable gift cards?
The p2p Sats are usually more tainted and more risky of landing on government watch lists than a KYC light provider in Switzerland.
I donāt really see any privacy advantages in p2p on Fiat.
There is a difference between privacy and anonymity. Sounds like you are referring to anonymity.
Question is, should people living off tax payer funds to be allowed to have any privacy or anonymity?
Should the government? This since their reasons for secrecy is quite questionable when all of a sudden former ātraitorsā become public entrepreneurs?!
Privacy and anonymity is the private tax paying citizens privilege, not the slaves to the peopleās.
āPrivacy is necessary for an open society in the electronic age. Privacy is not secrecy. A private matter is something one doesn't want the whole world to know, but a secret matter is something one doesn't want anybody to know. Privacy is the power to selectively reveal oneself to the world.ā
Privacy certainly is necessary for people, but not for the government serving its people.
There is no justification for a government to be feeding demons of false cored social construct to justify overreach, corruption, acts of war and attacks on civilians to maintain its own corruption private and āsecretā.
And there it is. The old āprivacy is not anonymity argumentā. This tells me you either are a spook or been duped by one.
Without anonymity you donāt have privacy. Simple as that.
But to make it very clear:
You buy Sats KYC light, the exchange knows who you are and your bitcoin address.
You buy Sats on hodlhodl, counterparty knows who you are and your bitcoin address with very little effort (unless you go to extreme efforts).
Where the f is the privacy benefit?
You can only choose who you expose your info to.
Privacy after purchase is much more effective imo.
So the Cypherpunk manifesto is a spook document š ok bud
Secrecy isnāt anonymity. Privacy without anonymity is not possible and itās not what the manifesto says.
If heard several people argue like you do and the common theme was that these people advocates against all effective privacy measures and for going bank wire on hodlhodl, which to me makes them guaranteed spooks.
Ok explain the difference to me?
When did I advocate against privacy measures š
Youāve just gone full KYC defendoor and accused me of being a spook
Cool cool
Have a good one āļø
I said, Iām noticing the pattern. The āprivacy is not anonymityā argument is factually false and ALWAYS comes up when discussing p2p exchanges, often from people Iām confident are spooks.
So I assume people who make it are either spooks themselves or are regurgitating the argument spooks told them.
all of your responses seem to containe the words "UNLESS" "EXTREME" "EFFORTS"
this is what we live for.
we choose privacy and anonymity over convenience.
not sure what you are trying to prove.
No, itās a fucking trade off. Like everything. You yourself just said that you prefer the gift card over the more private, but costlier ATM.
The point is that itās simply not true that just going on a P2P exchange with Fiat has more privacy or anonymity.
And itās dangerous for beginners if itās promoted that way.
promoting ATMs is probably far more dangerous.
especially if youre telling everyone to travel to Prague.
Are you a tourism marketer? š¤£
No, but I like to go to Prague and itās on the same continent as I am š¤·
But Iām curious, whatās the danger of the ATM?
Cameras, LPRs, facial recognition, village babushka in the corner...
They have them in normal supermarkets, with no cameras that I know of, besides what you normally encounter in a supermarket š
But yes, if you are extremely paranoid nothing is save. Even the gift card might be a Fed plant and tracked with facial recognition and a deal with the gift card provider.
Which is why the most important privacy measure of all is to buy bitcoin and by doing so defund the suckers who have an unlimited fiat budget to stalk you.
I like Prague too. When I am there I make use of the options. but I am 9000km away.
What are these lengths you speak of?
Buy a gift card in a physical store with cash and to make sure that the address used never touches any UTXO that may be traceable to you.
people do that everyday. hardly lengths. Everytime i do my groceries i can get prepaid cards with cash. I dont understand the big deal. What is your best method again when using fiat?
in the end i dont care care if the UTXOs are traceable to a fictional me. I dont connect to the internet for Bitcoin purposes without multiple layers of condoms and sex toys
right way protect cyber tip !
There is no good method using Fiat online.
The best method is the KYC atm.
Buying online, you must assume that you are tracked and be careful with the funds bought.
And as I said, Iām not against p2p.
Iām just against people pretending like it had good privacy, when it will expose the information of most beginners to worse people than exchanges.
that is not the best method, ATMs, charge an arm and a leg, an average of 12%.
Preying on suckers like yourself.
We are talking about privacy, not cost. And Iāve seen them way cheaper than that.
see my other resposne about masks, license plate, fiat atm time stamps and amoounts, etc.
well you didnt say privacy. you said "best"
the word BEST is subjetive and judged differently by different people with different needs.
you need to articulate better
Yes, maybe I need to articulate better.
Refer to the beginning of this thread. The whole point was that he argued as if P2P is always better privacy than KYC.
Which simply is false.
And the whole thread I was arguing about the different methods and trade-offs for each.
Can we agree that the case I originally made ānormal fiat transaction p2p vs KYC lightā has no real privacy benefit? You just doxx yourself to different people.
he is right. ofcourse P2P is better privacy than KYC.
KYC is non-private by default.
p2p, 3 letter athorities have to go GREAT LENGTHS AND EXTREMES to trap you for 120 dollars š¤£
Unfortunately thatās what they do. I used to work in the surveillance tech industry.
They go to extreme lengths to get dirt on normal people, but never take action on the big criminals, because those are their bosses or their bosses bosses/friends.
the resources required to do that are not worth it for them for the amount limits availalbe on p2p exchanges.
I also worked in two different surveillance tech industries and one government surveillance body.
Now you are being naive. There is a reason they would like to surveil every single fiat transaction.
A major purpose of TLAs is to have dirt on as many people as possible to silence inconvenient people.
With the complicated and often not completely finalized tax laws on bitcoin, itās just too tempting.
In the end the only thing they had on Al Capone was taxes.
What is private about the P2P?
You are giving your counterparty banking info and BTC address.
KYC light you give the exchange baking info and BTC address.
Both get the same info. The advantage of exchanges is that you know who has your data and itās only one partner that needs to he trustworthy.
The downside is that itās one partner who has all transactions.
you can anonymize your UTXOs very well with the tools out there
as long as they are my keys they are my coins which i lost in a boating accident.
it doesnt have good privacy by default, you are right, but it has the potential, if used well, for a superior privacy without getting cucked by an over priced ATM and exposing your face to the camera....
if you want to use the GREATH LENGTHS and EXTREMES excuse...yes wearing a mask and avoid all cameras, not withdrawing funds close to the btc atm, riding a bike so your license plate is not exposed, etc...
We are aligned on thatš¤·
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