Yeah I think this disconnect is purely a perspective difference between going from a developer mindset -> to the user while mine and many others is from the user -> to the developer.
My thing is that testing and exploration of those who want to learn or understand is hit with such confusing barriers so incredibly quickly that you can’t really just “explore” very well. Which I think increases the divide
(Didn’t get to finish comment earlier)
I also think this is a huge problem that developers overlook when it comes to users. I do get that there are probably things like you say that GitHub does well that are not obvious to non-devs, but essentially 99% of open source software says “Download it at GitHub (LINK)!”
I would like to have widespread adoption of open source software but as long as the UI complaints are answered with “GitHub isn’t for installing software,” that’s never going to happen.
I originally meant the OP to be funny, but it does actually matter. And unfortunately developers generally have a very terrible sense of the user perspective and I don’t think many realize how much that determines the success or failure of a piece of software - and often the cleanliness and security of its function is a distant second. I’ve seen really cool tools sit unused and I literally think it’s because there was no UI or visual design to get a user to understand their relationship to it.
In short: I think user design is a massive, unaddressed problem in open source software, & we should start thinking about it very hard, or we are going to lose to the same centralized, closed source crap for no other reason than we didn’t know how to communicate with normal humans 😆
Guy, you hit the nail on the head. As someone who has just started using GitHub over the last 2 years as I went down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, it is not intuitive or beginner friendly
thanks. This is what I would expect to. I think the majority of devs will hate my take & think it makes no sense. While the majority of new people to bitcoin & open source in the last 3-5 years will think my take here is spot on. 🤣
Devs are a different breed. I can’t code but still want to verify my open source software I’m downloading easily all on one platform with the click of a button. I also want in big letters “DOWNLOAD HERE” lol
100% agree. Its INSANE to me that just getting shit installed onto your computer so you can try it out hasn't got any easier in the last 15 years. If anything, the proliferation of GitHub has made it even more confusing for non-devs.
How did Hal install the original
Bitcoin core on his computer?
How did you install it on your computer?
Writing complex software and then creating a seamless install method are both laborious. I think there’s over-trivialization of creating an installer/bundle/whatever in this thread.
Oh I definitely don't mean to trivialise the task! It's far from trivial - but it is also super important imho. Time and effort are limited resources for both devs and non-devs. A laborious task for a Dev can save literally thousands of effort-hours for non-devs, and "If you really care you'll learn how" isn't an excuse that scales. Its only ever true for a comparatively small subset of potential users.
💯
Proof of Work is life. But scaling requires using other work for you.
Even though I said “can you please make it intuitive” I really do feel like the responsibility for this layer kinda falls on people in my position.
I’m technically skilled enough to know a lot of what is going on in GitHub, but still spend so much time naturally exploring and thinking about simple design that I think I do really well with the normie perspective.
I did a 9 page write up with the problems and some potential solutions to the old design of BTcPayServer and they actually took into account like a third of what I suggested and it is far better with the new UI. Still not perfect and some of the tools and naming conventions are still confusing, but it’s much better than it was.
I wish I felt like I had time to actually build and design interfaces for things because I think I’d be good at it and from what I’ve worked on purely from a photoshop perspective I’ve had really positive feedback. Between my sisters color and aesthetic skill and my own thinking around app flow and uses, I think we could really be valuable. Really just a matter of time and resources… always is I guess.
🤝 🫂
Please keep recommending UI/UX improvements so creativity retarded colour blind people like myself can improve things for users.
I am not over trivializing it, I’m trying to explain the *importance* of it. I don’t claim at all that what I’ve suggested is an easy task.
Like I said, my OP was supposed to be a casual joke about my pains with using GitHub despite starting this in depth conversation. 😆
It’s obviously vastly easier said than done. As someone who digs through dependencies incessantly with docker tools and is working with someone right now to try and get slashtags fully built inside a Wordpress plug-in, trust me I know this isn’t a simple ask.
What feels like the 100s of different times and different versions and environments and docker instances in which I have installed the same python packages still confound me to no end. And how often I try to do something only to realize the version in the current thing I’m working in isn’t the right one and then trying to understand how and at what layer I need to update or downgrade python or pip or whatever - just hurts my face 🤣🤣
Computers can be infuriating sometimes.
Python is a shitcoin.
I also agree. Have been coding for about 5 years now. GitHub and git for that matter took a long time to understand. I do agree now that I am developing at my job full time that the interface is actually amazing.
I think a bulk of the confusion actually stems from how hard it is for a total novice to understand git.
Therefore your distinction between the protocol and the client is actually very important. It’s also good! I think the ideal client for a developer and an end user are in reality two totally different views of the same information.
