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Living with Bitcoin.

Lately I'm a little sad because Bitcoin adoption by "common" people has been slowing down.

I would like this post to serve to collect ways to use our Bitcoin without having to pay taxes, since paying taxes is totally immoral.

I am not a tax expert, on the contrary, I simply give information that I have been collecting and especially for European citizens.

The first way which is the one I like the least, which is to exchange your bitcoin for FIAT and buy products with it, the question is that you can not do it in your bank account in your country because if not, the tax authorities will knock on your door. You have to do it through neobanks that give you an iban outside your country and if it is possible that this is outside the European Union better, you also have to keep in mind that this account can not relate it to the account of your country because to make a transfer in either direction, through the CRS system the treasury of your country would know the existence of that account. The operation would be to sell on the exchange and transfer it to this account and use the card to pay for goods and services.

Here are some neobanks, it would be helpful if together we can expand this list:

Revolut - Lithuanian IBAN

Bankera - Lithuanian IBAN

W1tty - British IBAN (Does not allow sending to exchange)

Wise - Belgian IBAN (Does not allow sending to exchange)

Tap - British IBAN

Icard - Bulgarian IBAN

Dukascopy - Swiss IBAN

Advcash - Lithuanian IBAN

The next solution is the one I like the most, being able to use your Bitcoin to buy goods or services:

https://www.bitrefill.com/

And we have this excellent nostr:npub1lxktpvp5cnq3wl5ctu2x88e30mc0ahh8v47qvzc5dmneqqjrzlkqpm5xlc guide:

https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/pay-bills-with-bitcoin

It would be appreciated if we could expand this guide together, the only solution for Bitcoin to succeed is to use it, it is useless to have it stored until the end of the days.

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Discussion

Slimey Limey 2y ago

I don’t think is stopping at all.

But more info out there is great, it might change someone.

Sovereign Being 2y ago

Good info, thanks.

I think sadly that the average person will only adopt when they are left with no choice (their local currency collapses) or when the markets are euphoric. Bear markets, which we are still in, are of course the optimal time to get in, but people are on fearful to enter on average during these times.

On a personal note, I would exercise caution with Revolut. They tried scamming me with their businesses services, and I have seen a number of instances of them freezing accounts - most notably that of Tristan Tate.

BitcoinAir 2y ago

Revolut closed my account for no apparent reason, I think it was for making transfers between individuals to buy Bitcoin precisely. They did not accept claims. That's why, that's why Bitcoin is important

idsera 2y ago

What about https://www.xapobank.com/? They are pro bitcoin.

fc994dc4... 2y ago

One small thing we can do is ask business if they accept bitcoin, if no boycott them when we can. And also add places to btcmap, even if they don't accept it, at least people will go there and ask, then boycott them.

sto 2y ago

We moved 2 months ago near Lugano. The adoption is amazing compared to other places. So nobody knows what I bot when using my "clean" wallets.

I'm avoiding the "crypto cards". It makes no sense to me to use them. I don't want to support the tradfi.

Further, everywhere when I have to pay for something, I ask if bitcoin is accepted. This generates attention and leads potentialy to adoption at that particular store. Every bitcoiner should do that.

https://planb.lugano.ch/crypto-payments/

nikotsla 2y ago

We need a critical mass to avoid the state, and it's still a long travel. Maybe some https://lnbits.github.io/lnpos/installer/ installed and promoted by BTC communities. You always have the input/output to fiat problem for a merchant :(

bitcoiner7 nym 2y ago

I'm with you on thinking about this.

I don't want to be paranoid but I do wonder if using neobanks within the European Union is safe, from the risk of government overreach perspective. Governments in EU can collaborate on tracking us down.

Perhaps Dukascopy from Switzerland is a better choice. But even there, I would not be sure.

Tough issue. How to drive Bitcoin adoption, which means use it to buy stuff, and yet avoid tax implications, ideally legally.

I guess the best thing works be to live in a jurisdiction where there is no capital gain tax on selling Bitcoin, but this leaves is with Switzerland, hard to immigrate to, or El Salvador, far away, maybe Madeira as well. Any other options people see?

Otherwise, we have to hide behind peer to peer exchanges, coin joins or alike, which all comes with the cost, hassle and risk. Even peer to peer, like Bisq or Robosats, they anyway leave a trace in your bank account history. Sure, it looks like a regular transfer to some individual, but still, if they trace the Bitcoin seller, they will know. And peer to peer cash, impractical.

Interestingly, in the sovereign individual book, the authors predicted Bitcoin, but also predicted a growth of e-commerce and an economy that is outside of the governments ability to tax, which, I think, has not really materialized. Thanks to technology and regulations, is seems to me, governments can easily track our transactions, unless we try to hide, which, like I said, come with cost, risks and hassle.

I'm unsure what to do myself. Today, beyond stacking sats for the future, that is, the digital gold or treasury reserve asset use case, I'm not selling, I'm not using Bitcoin to buy anything, because, from a tax perspective, it is like selling.

Complicated. I'd love to hear perspectives from others.

Ronin 2y ago

Revolut disabled my account for buying and selling btc. We can all have workarounds but the best option is to increase merchants adoption, that sadly seems like it's going very slow.

Keel 2y ago

IMHO, in Europe and US, it's almost a deadend now. There are simply almost no use cases for average people and businesses where bitcoin can serve as a better MoE (cheaper and/or faster) compared to cash and banks.

As a SoV, bitcoin is another (risky) investment that fluctuates wildly (ie, it can give you high gains and high losses).

In other countries, bitcoin may be actively used for inter-border transfers, as protection against very high inflation, darknet and for tax avoidance and corruption payouts.

That's my take today.