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As long as people know that WoS can rug them at any time for any reason then caveat emptor. As old as time, you get your hand burnt on the stove a couple of times and then look for more secure methods of spending bitcoin.

What's wrong with Phoenix (now with splicing) connected to your own electrum? UX is on par with WoS and if they do choose to not service you at any time in the future you can easily move funds on chain. Best of both worlds imo.

Beautyon 2y ago

Unfortunately, you’re thinking from inside the Bitcoin Cult Bubble, and are not interested in solving anyone’s problems other than your own.

Features are a spectrum; normal people are not interested in Cult Lingo, “Rugged”, “$5 Wrench” blah blah blah. If you spent time (which Bitcoin Cult members refuse to do) interacting with normal people, and we’re in the business of supplying Lighting to them, you would know why WoS is extraordinary.

But we don’t live in that world. The Bitcoin Cult Echo Chamber is hell bent on making Bitcoin unusable for Consumers, and they don’t have the wherewithal to midwife Hyperbitcoinization alone.

Several products and services are coming however that are dedicated to the new category, “Consumer Bitcoin”, and the landscape will be changed forever after they’ve launched. This is an absolute prerequisite to Hyperbitcoinization, and WoS is a good example of the sort of UX you can and should expect.

Will people still be able to use the tools they love, like Electrum? Of course; but there will be billions that will never use it, and they will all use Bitcoin on other people’s terms, whether you like it or not.

And yes, that’s a good thing!

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Discussion

smoak 2y ago

Yes, referring to "rugged" and indeed "Bitcoin Cult Bubble" and the cringe-worthy "Hyperbitcoinization" is in itself feeding the dogmatic approach to bitcoin and encourages Maxis to use Bitcoin as their identity rather than a technology. I guess we are both guilty as charged with furthering their cause in that regard.

Bitcoin has always been an opt in tech and people are free to adopt and use it however they like. If people want to use WoS then they are free to do so but WoS is not extraordinary I'm not saying Daniel Alexiuc will indeed steal funds. I had personal conversations with him when I was paying my energy bills in Melbourne back in 2016 via his earlier enterprise Living Room of Satoshi. He's a great guy but the fact remains that having such a widely adopted lightning app that is fully custodial could do a lot of damage in the mind of the laggards if it goes pop.

Maybe i'm not looking to solve global adoption problems like yourself but I'd push back on your statement that I'm in this for only my own ends. I have a beautiful family, a very close knit community and are all bitcoin savers and spenders. We use Monero when we want privacy, we mine on both networks even though we're now based in the UK, (yes it is possible) and do our part in progressing adoption in our own way. That may not be to your high standards but we are all different, with very opposite life experiences and pursuits.

Consumer Bitcoin in a few years will be people buying a bitcoin ETF on e-toro. Sad but much higher probability that a nation of WoS users.

Beautyon 2y ago

“MAXIS” QED, BLOCKED! oh wait!

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

WoS is the antithesis of Bitcoin. You are not using Bitcoin you are using an IOU on WoS centralized ledger. Affinity scam.

"the main benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required"

Why not use Paypal at that point? More convenient and bigger network effect. Have you ever thought that if a custodial closed source app is necessary to get people to use lightning, maybe lightning itself sucks...maybe they are not ready for Bitcoin either.

Beautyon 2y ago

BLESSINGS OF THE CULT, BLESSINGS OF SATOSHI. THOU ART A SUBJECT IF THE CHAIN, CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF SATOSHI, BY THE CHAIN, FOR THE CHAIN. WORK HARD, AVOID ACCIDENTS AND BOW TO SATOSHI. v

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

You really showed that strawman a lesson.

You're in awe of custodial and permissioned solutions. How novel and revolutionary! Much wow! If that is your goal...then what was the point to any of this?

Speaking of cults: You're going full circle and it is sad and disappointing to watch you "hyperbitcoinization" "mass consumer adoption" types. You throw away the most critical aspects that make Bitcoin unique to begin with for mass appeal. Nothing is really special about Bitcoin without self custody and permissionlessness.

Beautyon 2y ago

You are a Brainwashed Cult Member. Many such cases. Your class will always exist. This is the world we live in!

rand0mguest2 2y ago

You have triggered the orange pillers beautyon. 😂 they will never get it but it doesn’t matter

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Namecalling is all you have so far, didn't address a single thing, and complete projection. Nice.

BitcoinSandy 2y ago

He loves to wind up 🤷‍♂️. It’s not cultist to find solutions that are permission-less and non custodial. It’s important to have a passionate core striving to find this. Of course there will be mass adoption custodial products but it’s not the way in a world where centralisation and control is growing. Bitcoin was meant to give people self sovereignty, to have savings and to spend as they choose. It’s not cultist to strive for that 🤙

BitcoinSandy 2y ago

What is amusing with the cultist accusations is that Beautyon blocked so many on Twitter who didn’t agree with him, a true sign of a cultist. And he can’t on Nostr . Although I guarantee his mute list will be extensive as a cult thot leader needs no insubordination in his followers 😂