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Replying to ede3d957...

That's the main difference between Monero and Bitcoin. We are freedom maxis and >95% of people know why they own Monero.

Bitcoin has been such a success because price appreciation marketed it to fiat maxis. Monero's success is growing in the dark.

Liberty Farmer 1y ago

I don't disagree. However, nobody cares about monero in reality, and the economic value keeps going down. What good is keeping one's savings privately if it constantly loses purchasing power? Better off keeping and using cash.

Monero will keep trending towards zero against bitcoin and even the USD.

Perhaps to go in and outnof via atomic swaps, but not really much else use for me.

95% of my bitcoin is kyc free, and completely separate from the kyc.

That's just as private, however also provable as needed.

To each their own.

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Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

To be fair, the vast majority of the world doesn't care about Bitcoin or Monero.

If you believe Monero will continue to downtrend, why not just use it for transactional privacy and continue saving in Bitcoin?

Cash is great locally but:

Cant send cash instantly to anyone on the planet.

Cant carry unlimited amounts in your head to avoid confiscation and theft.

Issuance is centralized.

Inflation is unpredictable.

Difficult to verify authenticity of bills on-the-fly.

No mechanism to verify supply.

Not as easily divisible. Need to carry specific denominations for change.

Can't trustlessly exchange for crypto (no atomic swaps)

Different people can't have simultaneous ownership and control over the same cash (multisig)

no-KYC Bitcoin doesn't make it private. No actions are hidden. Anyone in the world can see what you do, so you're more vulnerable to chain analysis. It does make it kind of anonymous though (hidden identity). Privacy and anonymity are both important to have.

Liberty Farmer 1y ago

It is anonymous, not private, correct. Being private defeats the point of having an open ledger that TX can be verified.

I have no idea what I would ever do with monero. Nobody accepts it, there isn't online betting with it, I know literally 0 people that own it and would take it as a tip, for dinner payback, etc..

So what am I using it for? Transact how? I can't send zaps, or play blackjack, or buy something at my local Cafe or even buy and sell it at my local ATM like I can bitcoin.

It lost 30% the other day when binance delisted. Soon the remaining ones will, as there is no reason for them to exchange and hold it.

It's a great concept, but lost the battle. There is no use case currently that would be beneficial FOR ME. And most of even 'crypto' users.

Perhaps I am missing something, but what?

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

You're right. If you don't have a need for it or find it useful then you don't. I'm simply saying there are more use cases for it and people who use it than you may think.

Here is a large directory for places to spend it on white markets:

https://monerica.com/

Here is a growing p2p white market:

https://moneromarket.io/

nostr:npub172mu27r5yny0nnmvgjqwhx055dmsesrrx7j0p5d3pxagfx6xgxfsv75p3q sells great maple syrup

https://gratuitas.org sells great coffee

nostr:npub19k9fy5yu6a9ldkxtgu78lgh27vp82nrg7twz9ytyrma5l0mwv22sq5hs8s sells great pemmican bars

Most FOSS privacy projects and businesses accept payment and even prefer donations in Monero (Tor, IVPN, Mullvad, SimpleLogin, AnonAddy, SimpleX, Molly, GrapheneOS, Silent Link, CoinCards, ShopInBit, etc)

...and of course it is the preferred and rising star of Freenet Markets

Can't find a place you would spend? Only care about anonymity?

Worse case you can purchase giftcards and virtual debits (more widely accepted than Bitcoin) cheaper using Monero (They don't know you were the one who purchased it - little to no info required at purchase - and you could have been given it as payment or as a gift from someone else):

https://coincards.com/

https://www.coinsbee.com/

https://buy.cakepay.com/

Buy things from Amazon using Monero. The person buying it for you doesn't know who you are or your address. Amazon doesn't know it was purchased with Monero.

https://monezon.com/

Atomic swaps popping up everywhere. BTC swaps:

https://unstoppableswap.net/

https://basicswapdex.com/

https://code.samourai.io/wallet/comit-swaps-java/-/releases

ETH and BCH have one and I see discussion amongst LTC for it.

https://github.com/AthanorLabs/atomic-swap

https://github.com/PHCitizen/bch-xmr-swap

Serai and Haveno DEXs probably releasing sometime this year. Saw discussion amongst Thorchain DEX to introduce it (use asgarDEX frontend to avoid problems with the "official" frontend). You can also get it the old fashioned way with fiat p2p via LocalMonero or Bisq

I think versus other crypto Monero is actually winning a battle that is not over yet. It's becoming less reliant on TradFi and centralized institutions...all this adversarial pressure is strengthening it...Less speculation, paper trading price manipulation, custodians, and KYC.

This is the crucible. If it survives delistings it can survive anything.

I don't think any other crypto would do this well in the same situation including Bitcoin. Many "privacy" coins also caved in to Binance demands of changing the protocol to suit them.

Liberty Farmer 1y ago

Cool. Thanks. I'll take a look. I've browsed the market before, for sure not my style.

I'm betting in 10 years monero will be worth nothing, hence nobody will hold it. But I could certainly be wrong.

All good, appreciate it!