Hot take: having firefighters is a worthwhile thing.
#taxes
Discussion
The exception that proves the rule.
This story is so exceedingly rare that it makes the news on a different continent.
Being a rule doesn't make it morally superior. For thousands of years we had more wars than periods of peaceful cohabitation. If we recall peaceful cohabitation periods in history, we don't call it "the exception that proves the rule", we call it "the goal we must strive for".
Nothing against public servant firefighters, I just pointed out that it is possible to have volunteer firefighters. Which makes more sense, since locals take the responsibility to care and protect their own community.
So yeah, it's a fallacy to associate firefighters with taxes.
I take your point here about just because it's what people do now and it works well doesn't mean it's the best option or one that we should strive for.
Do you understand the following quote from the article?
"Without a state-funded fire service, Chile relies on some 50,000 men and women like Pena, who are financed by foreign, private and state donations."
It starts out with not being funded by the state and then ends with "state donations". So does the state fund the firefighters or not?
Nevermind, I found it. For federal and state goverents fund the majority of the fire service.
"55% of funding for the fire service comes from central government, while the rest comes from local government, donations and fundraising activities like bingo and raffles."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-27186801
So much for taxes not paying for fire service. Haha
Naturally, from the seeds of modern civilizations in Sumer 6.000 years ago till nowdays nation-states, power centralization is the norm.
For the first time in 6.000 years we have truly decentralized money (#Bitcoin), a decentralized information network (World Wide Web) and social media (#Nostr).
If we make an analogy with natural selection, the environmental boundary conditions favored strong centralized power structures. With decentralized technology this starts to change. That's why governments are freaking out with the level of freesom the internet and bitcoin give to its citizens.
If even with this power structure we still have volunteer firefighters depending on 55% central government, I can only imagine what kind of power and organization structures we will have with decentralized technologies paving the way.
So, again, the direct correlation of firefighter and taxes is a fallacy equivalent to a XIX century person saying "we only have economical development because of institutionalized slavery".
Firefighters are in most cases organised voluntarily.
We have volunteer firefighters in our town. They are paid by the city and get a pension (which is where a LOT of the money goes). The "volunteer" part is very misleading in my opinion. I mean, sure, they aren't being forced to be fire fighters against their will, and yet...
There are places where actual volunteer firefighters exist. They virtually all have very spotty response times, frequently little training.
Historical facts, firefighting used to be private industry where you voluntarily chose your fire department and paid their price just like any other good or service.
There is no evidence that they did a worse job during that time after accounting for worse equipment and poorer communications affect on their performance.
There is a myth that they would go watch peoples houses burn down without helping if they weren't paid up and didn't pay on the spot, but there is 0 historical evidence that ever happened even a single time.
Roman Firefighters were slaves by your own reference. Which side are you on?
Note that curesntly Knox County Tennessee is all private firefighting and many people in West Coast Forest Fire territory hire private companies to get extra protection for their homes.
Someone said there were firefighters before there were taxes. They offered no evidence of this, but if it's because it was slave based fire service, I'd be on the side where they get paid for their work.
You've given a modern example of how it not only could, but does work with exclusively private funds. So that's interesting enough that I'll give it a look.
Also from Wikipedia,
"insurance companies formed private fire brigades to protect their clients’ property. These buildings were identified by fire insurance marks.“
"There is an urban legend that insurance brigades would only fight fires at buildings the company insured. This claim has been debunked."
On top of that, I live in a rural area where 95% of our fire department is volunteer and I'm still charged a fire tax.
Ironically none of those departments can access my home and the nearest fire hydrant is 2 mikes away. Draft water you argue? Fine, go a half mile through a forest to my nearest lake. If my house catches fire and I can't put it out I have accepted the loss.
Avg response time is 15 minutes, my home is constructed of very old pine from the 30's some of which has become lighter....it would be a pile of ash but hey I paid the tax.
Let me opt in to the public services I can use/want
Private firefighters still exist for the rich and they arguably do a better job.
https://calmatters.org/housing/2025/01/private-firefighters-insurers/
There were Firemen before property taxes.
🫤
Try harder.
Psyop, the government invented the house fire to justify taxes for firemen. In fact there wasn’t even death before the estate tax.
What, you think Ancient Rome didn't have taxes? And you're telling others to try harder? 😆 LOL
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefighting_in_ancient_Rome