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Your Bitcoin (or whatever transparent shitcoin you use) is NOT fungible.

Bitcoin maxis ignoring this problem in the name of NGU are THE problem, more than any unconscientious nocoiner ever can be.

Big businesses "accepting" cryptocurrencies are now applying the same KYC procedures as exchanges, which means account closures, flagging, reporting to authorities of otherwise totally normal transactions.

It's the biggest problem we encounter since the beginning of Bitcoin. Legal systems are now prepared to prohibit the use of fungible (Monero) and criminalise the use of non fungible/tainted (Bitcoin,...) coins.

Note, that taint can be anything. Like the use of a DEX, an unregulated exchange, a certain coin age, a far distant association/link to illicit funds. Every transaction has a risk score and businesses are trying to protect their own ass.

Bitcoin has already split into a regulated shitcoin arm INDISTINGUISHABLE from 100% surveiled and controlled fiat banking. It's now a financial tool and people are celebrating it's total annihilation/destruction.

Bitcoin is NOT money and will never be. Just like fiat is NOT money despite it being the reference system. Dark Bitcoin comes close to being money, but using Monero is a hundred times more secure, private and easy compared to dark Bitcoin.

But it's an immense uphill battle to even make Bitcoiners aware of the problems.

Let me encourage you Bitcoiners to FUCKING use your coins, so you run yourself into the problems I described above. The sooner we choose to work together, the better are our chances to not create the dystopia we wanted to avoid.

Because in a 100% surveiled and controlled system, fiat cash is a blessing with real workd use more than any fictious NGU games will ever be.

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Discussion

Printer 1y ago

Many of us do so on a daily basis, don't act like it isn't possible just because it's hard. Privacy was always hard, and the more digital the future becomes, the difficulty level of maintaining sufficient privacy rises exponentially. This is a problem of the digital age and not isolated to bitcoin.

Meanwhile Monerobros are feeling superior while celebrating their cake honeypot and sending xmr to twitter accounts. 🤣

Oh did I mention the monero acc on twitter is literally ran by a guy who also runs a chain analysis firm? SurprisedPikachu.jpg

Maybe scoop in front of your own doors before complaining about someone else's doorstep being dirty?

ede3d957... 1y ago

If you haven't run into problems with Bitcoin or have been (knowingly) reported to authorities you are not nearly using it often enough.

Monero is the best option where merchants accept it directly. But thanks to states pressuring exchanges and merchants to not accept it, it is basically useless for anything in the "state-licensed" markets. Just like dark Bitcoin.

KYC Bitcoin is a shitcoin.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

The largest coordinator right now on wabisabi has about 0.1% of Bitcoins total daily transactions. ~99.9% of Bitcoin transactions aren't coinjoining. "Many of us" is quite an exaggertaion.

Lightning users are also something like 87% custodial with zero privacy from the custodian or use an LSP that can see everything they do.

Printer 1y ago

Wasabi is a broken piece of crap which no one should ever use in the first place. The only viable type of bitcoin privacy right now is self custodial lightning with great sender privacy and blinded paths plus private channels. Not many are using it, that's true.

Lightning users and bitcoin users are mostly custodial because most people just don't fucking care. If they don't care about self-custody and cold storage, what makes you think they will suddenly care about financial privacy?

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

Yes, I agree it shoudn't be used, and Wasabi was once the largest coinjoin protocol, as small as it was, and if it's broken like the Nth vulnerability that was recently discovered idk how that helps your case that many people are coinjoining or using Bitcoin privately

"Lightning users and bitcoin users are mostly custodial because most people just don't fucking care."

That and it's much harder to use fully privately vs something like Monero so people don't do it

Printer 1y ago

I never said people are coinjoining, apologies if what I wrote implied that. In fact I think only payjoins between trusted parties are viable coinjoins at this point in time.

It's harder on bitcoin because of missing privacy features and harder on xmr because of delistings, lack of on and off ramps, and generally low liquidity. Privacy is always hard, just for different reasons, but this is protocol agnostic.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

That's very fair

Jordan S 1y ago

Cake is an open source software, that enables privacy tools for multiple cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin, while they do primarily focus on Monero they are an essential tool for helping new users learn how The Self-Custody Bitcoin ecosystem works.

I am going to assume you're talking about Justin Ehrenhofer, many (including myself) criticized him rightly so for running his Moonstone Research company, he did reduce his roles within the Monero community as a result of the criticism, he also stated that any information gained from his firm would be shared to Monero Research Labs to help develop countermeasures.

Justin is a very intelligent individual, and while I can't attest to why he started Moonstone, it's fair to assume from what I've read he did so in order to help Monero form a legal compliance infrastructure.

Justin has contributed A Lot to the Cryptocurrency world (Bitcoin too).

Bird pay utilizes twitter's API's to enable users to transact more easily while still maintaining the privacy of the Monero network.

The Monero protocol itself still protects users after funds are recieved.

Printer 1y ago

If you can't see why birdpay is a terrible terrible terrible idea, I have no time to convince you.

Jordan S 1y ago

In the worst case it only allows Twitter to see whenever someone accessed the api.

But you're also considering that most monero users are anonymous, and use VPNs, or Tor.

So really it doesn't tie any particular transaction to a person.

It could tie information to the block the transactions was in potentially but without poisoned outputs, they couldn't guess the output result.

This is no different than zaps, or posting your Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency addresses publicly.

Printer 1y ago

I don't think it's that easy, unfortunately.

Jordan S 1y ago

What's not easy?