Nostr Web Client

It's funny to see how non-Amethyst users react to our "complicated" relay settings. They think users are stupid and can't figure it out.

We are now a few days in and I am very proud of how our actual users reacted to it. Our UI being quite rudimentary for relay selections but that didn't scare anyone. People asked questions, changed things, and generally kept going.

There was a chance Amethyst Outbox would crash and burn. But it didn't. People are not stupid. You give them the tools, they will figure it out.

Empowering users is a hard thing to do. But it is way better than letting an app hide things from them so much that they don't even know where their content is.

As we move forward, those tools will get better and better.

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Discussion

Ryan 4mo ago

TKay 4mo ago

A lot of us react that way just for the giggles.

Tekkadan, ゲロゲロ! 🐸 4mo ago

I made sure to participate in the outrage with no actual complaints to make

nostr:nevent1qqsdv90dhm77l9kmnahvd2awkj4spg0ds73g0myrlr274h3kqenc0hqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygzsszd98lhetyz9zw5yp4qg92ftghx47xu7gdke62uj4zwwpy03vspsgqqqqqqs2tl5e7

elsat 4mo ago

Anything you would do differently?

Vitor Pamplona 4mo ago

With current resources? Not really. I wish we could move faster, but it is what it is

Coffee ☕ 4mo ago

And with a dev that responds everyone is way easier

Vitor Pamplona 4mo ago

Frankly, I didn't even participate much. Lots of uses were replying to each other and their answers were great.

richard 4mo ago

you might as well remove the blocked relays list as it does not work, at least that'll be one less relay list to worry about

Vitor Pamplona 4mo ago

No, we will fix it.

Luxas 4mo ago

wen ios version

Vitor Pamplona 4mo ago

When I finish with the Android version. :)

5d5a9d4f... 4mo ago

Default settings seem fine.

Andrew Gomez 4mo ago

Agreed in principle. This could also apply to Linux OSes, from the POV of Windows users. It's probably why everyone is still awaiting (and maybe will forever be awaiting) The Year Of The Linux Desktop. UX matters, maybe more than anything else. Most people don't want to be empowered, sadly. They just want to do what they want to do without jumping through needless hoops or relearning everything from zero all over again. Can't really say I blame them, life in 2025 isn't exactly easy. Meanwhile, Google took the Linux kernel, made it idiot-proof and captured most of the mobile device market with Android, and gouged out a larger market share for Desktop than any single Linux distro with Chrome OS. What, If anything, Can We all learn from Google? 🤔

JackTheMimic 4mo ago

The strange chicken and egg problem there is that- How do users know what they want to do with their computer unless they know what it can do?

Centralized platforms like Google, and Microsoft tell the user what they can do with their products. Linux distros allow the user to do anything they want but if the solution isn't prebuilt, the user has to build it.

This is literally the premise of the rules of the Matrix. You CAN do whatever you want. But if you ask the system what you can do, it will tell you a very limited featureset.

Little Spoon 4mo ago

I really admire your work and your attitude.

Real Hard Money Pod⚡️🟠 and 873 others 4mo ago

I wish there was an iOS version to use!

Hypno | seedkeys.xyz 4mo ago

I'm not stupid, yeah!

Globe99 4mo ago

Real talk: I treat relays like "infrastructure." I honestly don't care which ones I'm on or not on, I just want my notes to be spread to people who might want to see them.

I suspect this is going to be the "default" approach for most new users...

Vitor Pamplona 4mo ago

Yep, but if you don't know which relays are doing that, you are just feeding the same algorithms and sales platforms of big tech. Hopefully we can make people aware and empower them to pick and easily move between relays.

Globe99 4mo ago

I guess I'd rather get "all of the notes" server-side and then decide what I do or don't want client-side.

Vitor Pamplona 4mo ago

Then just use Twitter :) the beauty of Nostr is to not rely on any server doing that. Otherwise, there are alfar better protocols out there if the server is allowed to assemble your feed.

Globe99 4mo ago

What I'm talking about is using the *client* to decide the algorithm, or perhaps open-source DVMs, not the server. Twitter is everything decided by black-box algo.

I.e. Coracle with advanced filtering methods, etc.

But these models still just say "give me all the notes", and then filter (by my own choice) what comes through at the client level.

cloud fodder 4mo ago

amethyst users > cattle

technology was meant for learning

jb55 3mo ago

you'll also only ever attract a very small percentage of the population though. if we want everyone to use nostr this approach ain't gonna work

Vitor Pamplona 3mo ago

The old way is way more complicated. People need to keep tracking where their follows are posting to update their pull lists. On this one, you just inform where your posts are, where you want to receive notifications and after that is done and thats it. There is no need to setup which relays you want to use in the app to download posts from. Much easier.

cloud fodder 3mo ago

typically when people refuse to learn, I find it's because they don't want to. that's when it's best not to force it on them by making choices for them, because that just leads to you (the developer in this case) doing it all for them. is that the responsibility you want? nostr i think is about user choice, how hard is that? not very..

OgFOMK ArTS 4mo ago

I'm using Amethyst. Is it supposed to be broken?

reya 4mo ago

A mistake I made when building an app was assuming users are dumb, they're not

Vitor Pamplona 4mo ago

People like nice things, not dumb things.

AU9913 4mo ago

3 of your replies on this post look like youre talking to yourself and i have no idea y

Vitor Pamplona 4mo ago

Yeah, it's one of the bugs I am trying to hunt down.

AU9913 4mo ago

Coming back, all the original replies are there, so maybe a spinner would just make the ux more obvious if its juat that your reply loaded prior to the note its in reply to

afa64f02... 4mo ago

The reason it didn't crash and burn for me was, that it just worked without me needing to touch anything after the update. The Relay-Ui definitely needs to be a lot streamlined/simplified tough, any non overly technical user will run for the hills when he encounters the first problem... Btw. I like your innovative ideas a lot, lot, lot ...so don't read that as criticism please, it's work in progress of course!

Psyduck 4mo ago

I don't understand the Amethyst relay system. It's working so I don't touch it. The only annoying thing is some wine relay asking for money all the time.

casey 3mo ago

I do software sales and software testing along with some UI/UX. Perhaps your audience is not meant to be normal users. But you definitely need to be a strong Nostr user to remotely understand what is happening.

It’s really complicated for normal users. Far too many settings and options. You shouldn’t have to learn about this stuff just to install and use an app.

But benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you’re only looking to serve power users.

Vitor Pamplona 3mo ago

It's better than what it was before on a non-outbox client, where users need to constantly check the relays their follows are using and update their lists accordily. In this one, it is set and forget. Just make sure your posts are there. The app does the rest.

casey 3mo ago

Wow. Ok. If you’re hopping to onboard “normal” users. keep pushing for seamless startup experience. We as experienced users (and devs) understand the importance of relays. But new users should not have to understand what they are the first time they open a Nostr app. Most normal people aren’t going to want to learn. They just want their app to work. That’s what it is going to take for more adoption. Barriers to entry just means people will get frustrated and leave.

All this is intended to be constructive. You’ve built a ton of functionality, but it isn’t as easy as you make it sound. Remember not everyone has your life experience.

Vitor Pamplona 3mo ago

Makes sense. But if they don't understand which relays are hosting their content, there is absolutely no point on nostr. If they come to nostr just to use default servers of an app, that is not any different from a Twitter or Facebook. You only get any freedom if you control your posts, where they are. Otherwise, we didn't change anything. We can obviously hide these things away, but then we are not doing anything new here.

It's like using Bitcoin with custodial wallets. It's not that different from regular fiat.

casey 3mo ago

I agree. But I think we can do like a Crawl. Walk. Run. Approach. Not everyone needs to know everything immediately.

I didn’t learn multi-sig wallets with mini-script restrictions first.

I learn how to buy. Then send to a hot wallet. Then how to generate cold wallets etc.

We need to build a path to sovereignty.