Thanks for this interesting response, which I will admit is somewhat over my head. With regard to #Bitcoin, I frequently hear concerns expressed regarding mining centralisation and my understanding is that the pressure towards centralisation only increases with each successive halving. I think we can agree we have come a long way since Hal Finney & co. were apparently mining #Bitcoin using a CPU - not a GPU, a CPU.

By contrast, the hardware and energy requirement for running a Nimiq PoS validator is much, much lower. So I am interested in whether this might lead to greater decentralisation that centralised PoW mining.

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Mining has not centralized, it has decentralized over time. Mining *pools* have centralized (though on the surface it appears more distributed, but it isn’t unfortunately) but this is a networking problem, not a PoW problem.

Again, the problem is fundamental, not surface layer. PoS consensus cannot come with a “stake” that is determined by the outcome of that very same consensus. And PoS also has a fundamental centralizing force because there is no competition against stakers. You cannot remove or compete against their staking share unless *they* sell their coins. So the wealthiest stakers will always grow their portion faster than everyone else in the network. It centralizes far, far worse and more systemically. PoW does still just have the natural, physical economies of scale that make decentralization an uphill battle, but that’s not something inherent to PoW operation specifically.

I don’t know anything about that random token, but I’d bet very confidently that they have centralized checkpoints as part of consensus. Every other PoS model has it for obvious reasons.

Simply put, there’s no comparison here. PoW isn’t perfect or without challenges, but PoS isn’t even in the running. It’s centralized by default and can’t reach consensus in a decentralized fashion in the case of a network failure, communication lapse, or split in the network of any serious depth. Like I said, it’s the facade of decentralization that exists only at the very tip of the chain.

#Bitcoin can reach independent, untrusted consensus from block 100 (or block 1 even) if necessary without ANY coordination simply by verifying the PoW. No PoS can expect to even go 100 blocks back from right now without huge problems, or possibly even hitting signed checkpoints from a centralized trusted source, let alone years back or all the way back to its first day of operation.

Thanks, this is fantastic engagement from someone of your standing - even if a lot of it is not what I necessarily wanted to hear!

Can I ask if you feel there is utility in pitching protagonists for PoW versus PoS against each other in a broadcast or conference setting? If nothing else, it might provide a contrast to more routine "preaching to the choir" type content. Cutting to the chase, do you feel able and willing to put the case for PoW versus PoS and I would do my best to hunt around for the strongest proponent in the Nimiq team to go up against you? (No worries if not, just trying to stir things up a bit on an otherwise quiet Sunday afternoon!)

There is tremendous opportunity for decentralizing hashrate through miner heat reuse in all kinds of applications, both domestic and commercial. People are already using miners to heat their homes and water, amongst other uses. In places where heat was already provided by electricity, the bitcoin earned from mining is essentially a rebate on the energy cost.

It seems likely that large miners who rely on cheap power to stay profitable will continue to struggle with each halving, while those who are clever about leveraging miners to provide low grade heat will successfully stack sats without worry.

This is a decentralizing trend that I don’t see discussed much in mainstream circles yet.

Interesting, maybe not totally mainstream, but my understanding is that there are documentaries out there with titles like "Stranded" or "Dirty Coin" iirc, making the type of case in favour of Bitcoin which you describe. However, I find it interesting to reflect on the forthcoming Nimiq 2.0 PoS having an inherently much lower energy and hardware requirement to run a validator, and the potential for decentralisation implied by that.

I think it’s a matter of time before you can buy a bitcoin powered water heater at Lowes.

1000% I hear my house with 2 Whatsminers. Not worried about making a profit. I make heat.

HEAT*

Damn autocorrect

This is the way.