that's the fallacy that marxism brainwashed people's belief that capitalism means modern liberal democratic state, and not organised crime.

did i say liberal democratic state? yeah, i meant organised crime. politics is organised crime, either they just declare they voted to rob you, or they borrow money as well as divert the tax income to robbing you more invisibly (bank inflation, privilege in borrowing money).

the irony is that the majority of people between the millionaire and billionaire range are honest and mustered a large group of people to do something productive.

the ones right at the top, the 0.1% or so, the soros and gates and schwabb and all the rest are criminals, and they aren't just ordinary criminals, they are megalomaniacs and their whole joy in life is watching people being tricked into throwing their lives away, and protecting the petty criminals who keep their herd nervous and pliable.

the marxist doctrines literally have people thinking that the market is a criminal enterprise ad the government is legitimate, when the opposite is true in 99.999% of cases on this planet. all of the governments are corrupted. all of the large institutions are controlled. the big churches, and all those companies that are being paid by what is essentially stolen AND blood money, like that gold the CIA stole from iraq.

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Exactly!

The capitalist has brainwashed the worker. How does the State steal from me? How is the state organized crime but an executive board making 400x the workers compensation not stealing? At least the government is trying to feed the workers that the companies refuse to pay a living wage.

how does the state steal from you?

go ahead, see what happens when you refuse to pay taxes. i can assure you that if you so desire you can do a good 10-20 years in prison for it if you make half an effort.

this is the other thing that is a huge problem, and the marxists have arranged it:

you have never been an entrepreneur, trying to run a business.

so it's easy for you to believe that the employer is hostile to your interests.

some employers are hostile.

this behaviour is not correlated to the role but to the statistical distribution of assholeness in the population.

however, the statistical distribution of assholeness in the government is very much higher than the rest of the population.

your position is literally: "government > private individuals doing business"

you want a guaranteed job for life, pension plan, all that convenience, and the only way to get that for you is to STEAL FROM SOMEONE ELSE. either by debt, or by redistribution from the NOT VOLUNTARILY BUT RATHER COERCIVELY COLLECTED TAX.

do you NEED to buy a can of soda? comrade, you should be able to live on a vegetable patch in your apartment's balcony, you know.

lol.

socialism aims at the total destruction of private society. it wants everything to be mediated and controlled by the state. you have no right to any property beyond miniscule, cruel limits, and you must surrender any, including your freedom of movement, to their direction.

you, like most of the idiots chanting marx false slogans about labor and capital:

1. have never tried to do business in the free market

2. you have certainly never tried to find someone help you do that business you never have done

3. as such you have never experienced the extremely hostile attitude of government towards you growing vegetables and selling the surplus to your neighbour who swaps it for their surplus because you made a deal. omg, a deal. capitalism. between two individuals. disgusting.

4. you literally don't agree that the government has no claim to charge taxes to people at all, morally or from an accounting perspective, not only that you obviously know nothing about lex merchant and bills of exchange and thus you don't know that the whole taxation thing is a scam that you actually can avoid without being persecuted, mostly. that's the thing

you want government to control everything

what you get is psychotic busybodies with armies of thugs at their beck and call to teach you to be respectful to their role in the revolution, comrade.

What if I want to pay taxes?

What happens if a CEO makes a bad decision or decides to cut benefits to its workers, or refuses to fix working conditions? What happens if a group of workers get together to demand better pay and working conditions in their factories and coal mines?

Yes I currently run a construction company that has been operating 10 plus years. I started my first company at 20 years old doing concrete work.

Everyone wants life essentials, it is all paywalled by capitalist so we have to work for it. What the capitalist fail to see IS the people at the top of the company take from the worker who actually produce. They “steal” from the workers to pay themselves.

I own a company and you get paid by the workers you actually do. No one gets paid for just being at the “top” or just by owning things.

You show your age and maturity by resorting to ad hominems, then labeling me without knowing me. I have run successful profit sharing businesses. I am a reluctant anarchist.

What books have you read that were written by marxists, socialists, communist, and capitalist? Adam Smith, Joseph Schumpeter all warned you of the flaws with capitalism…as well as Lenin, Karl, and others. Don’t be so religious about capitalism “bro”.

if you want to pay taxes, that is YOUR decision not mine.

if you think there is equivalence between the coercive and deceptive program to make you believe you are indebted to them rather than the other way around, that's not my problem.

just don't tell me that the government is the final arbiter on how and who i give charity to, ok? because i spend most of my waking hours working towards making nostr available and effective for helping people organise their exit from the impending global communism of pod cities and government creches raising babies.

Remember, brevity is the soul of wit. I’m curious what you guys are talking about but it’s too wordy and not clear enough examples 😂

I frequently get attacked for my anti capitalist opinions. Which for some reason turns me into everything under the sun except the anarchist I am. I tend to find these “attacks” come from under read, younger, and well intended individuals. Who mainly seek solutions to the same problems as I, but have religiously attached their identity to capitalism or whatever Mel Gibson William Wallace “Freedom” flavor of the day. I tend to lean towards the psychological aspects of it all while maintaining the logical approach that we are indeed all in this together…so anything that seeks to exploit “us” I will rip that shit out and point at it.

i'm 49 years old.

the only form of collective organisation that isn't toxic cult-driven bullshit is *some* churches. governments, institutions, many movements, are all artificial, coercive and manipulative of people. notably, this fawning over the multiply proven illogical and counterproductive policies recommended by Karl Marx and that Engels handler guy who was working with him to manufacture a false religion.

that's my view of this:

decentralised organisations composed of individuals who all follow the same rules both with each other and with outsiders. not a cult, with a constant aggressive hostility towards the shadow self of the cult's leaders.

there may be other organisations that aren't churches (and keep in mind i classify non-christian religious organisations, some of them are also similar, and have similar philosophies. certain jewish sects, certain muslims, certain buddhists, certain taoists... and other groups like the essenes, and the mandaean/sabians.

they are the only kinds of collectives i've seen that are not compatible with the mind control/brainwashing program of various types of socialism, and have successfully survived many attempts to be purged by the establishment powers, who are the robber barons that most marxists don't even realise they are actually the patsies for.

yeah, john d and mayer both.

the story is much more complex than the dumbed down, distilled marxist model. but communism is the modern garment of the cult of kings. the cult of kings are tyrants, not just leaders. just leaders are judges only. they are trusted because they are fair with everyone.

common law, equity, some aspects of Sharia, most of the rules in the bible (except bullshit like deuteronomy and numbers and other places with sharia-like rules about certain things. these are what actually stands opposite the socialist model for organising society.

the "anarchocapitalist" and "austrian economics" movements are the de-religionised version of the same rules within the scope of the laws of property and the multiply repeated warnings from not just christian, jewish, muslim, zoroastrian, sufi, etc etc systems, the buddhists have the same basic frameworks in their social organisation models too. Taoism especially, the whole Tao te Ching is basically trying to advise rulers to not interfere and control society, and that this is actually the root cause of all evil in society. exploitative, slaver tyrants.

you hate tyrants too, right? but you are confused and think i am a tyrant.

idk if there is any way to make that connection with you because you have accepted some false premises about all of this

property rights are absolute.

stolen property does not confer any rights to the holder of them. if they acquire wealth through fraud and deception, they are tyrants. the soft, smiling type that hypnotises you into a suggestible state with lies and mind tricks.

the thing that moderates the absoluteness of property rights, is that of respect.

everyone should indeed give what they can to help others.

being a scrooge is not respectful. this is why all of those religions i told you about, tend to encourage helping the poor, and expecting everyone to give a similar portion of their wealth to help raise the poor up higher.

the poor of this age, even in the worst places in the world, are practically at nobility level of comforts with our modern technology.

they got there by people making businesses that increased efficiencies so that more could benefit. capitalists, who consider that their bank balance is equally important as the health of their neighbours.

If you feel attacked, then you have my sincere apology. Some degree of attack-ness is necessary, though, for the sake of finding truth. Truth is compassion ; illusions are enslavement.

If it makes you feel better, I do this with people I agree with, too. For example, my stance against banking earned me no friends while I was studying economics at university, despite generally liking and agreeing with my professors on most things. I do try to soften my wording, but there's just no way to completely smooth away the pointed "no/disagree" that's in a disagreement.

I appreciate the discussion, truly. Sometimes we need to step back and go little by little…I’m slow.

Where do property rights come from and who enforces them?

Property comes from work. Read John Locke, for a better definition than I can give. Property **_rights_** come from the golden rule, do to others what you'd have them do to you - aka social contract or God, if you want mental shortcuts.

No, not looking for mental shortcuts or any magical solution.

In order to have property rights, you must enforce those rights. Who enforces those rights?

You do. If you don't, they will be violated, and they will be violated most by whoever you trust to protect them.

So it’s within my rights to come put a bullet in your head or with whatever overwhelming force necessary to take what you “think” is yours. I like it.

Not sure how you made that leap. Its kinda the opposite..

Dear kind sir, when did I ever say that YOU must pay taxes? When did I ever say “government is the final arbiter on how and who you give charity to”?

You are passionate, and getting somewhat emotional, I get it…I too was once there. Stuck knowing there was a problem and blaming everything while excluding one thing. I implore you to actually read Marx, Lenin, Adam Smith, Joseph Schumpeter… read everything! Explore everything! Leave everything on the table and nothing hidden beneath. Don’t be angry with me…we are on the same team.

Big money controls government at the present. Why do you think there is such a thing as “lobbying”? Where does big money come from? The capitalist who exploits the worker and environment. Why does capitalism do this? To centralize power and gain more capital in order to centralize more power to gain more capital.