Replying to Avatar Gigi

Most #nostr clients still suck in terms of discoverability. But they don't have to.

They don't have to because we have all the right building blocks already, we just lack courage to steal. Yes, STEAL. I'd encourage everyone to steal—not copy—what other clients did well. In the spirit of "good artists copy, great artists steal."

Let's take a web-based reddit client for example, one that still works (sometimes) despite all the horrible API changes: https://www.popular.pics/

If you visit that site in your browser, you'll be greeted with something like this:

It's a viewer that supports multiple subreddits by default. You open it, and it just works. It has sensible defaults. (Important!) It defaults to multiple subreddits from the get-go. Subreddits that are visual, i.e. subreddits that have users posting visually pleasing images.

You can change these defaults easily, and the URL will update accordingly. This one is for subreddits concerning #nostr #bitcoin and #memes for example: https://www.popular.pics/reddit/subreddits/posts?r=nostr,bitcoin,memes - easy to share & easy to see what's going on. Steal this. Please.

Of course, if this is a nostr client (and if you're logged in) this should default to your personal web. The people and hashtags you follow; the communities and relays you are part of, etc. Bonus points if you implement an "expand" button which will expand your personal web by one degree, i.e. shows "friend of a friend" kind of stuff. Not only people you follow, but people followed by people you follow. Another click and it's two degrees. You get the idea.

Back to the interface, and the problem at hand: discoverability. As you can see, every image card quite prominently shows the subreddit it was posted the as well as the user who posted it.

Apart from the beautiful masonry layout (did I already mention that you should steal this too?), that's the one thing I like most about this image interface: it's so fucking easy to discover stuff. You click on a subreddit, and boom, you see all images from this subreddit.

You click on a username, and boom, you see all images from this user.

You will discover new subreddits via the "user" view (most users post to multiple subreddits) and you will discover new users via the "subreddit" view (most subreddits have posts from multiple users). You can spend DAYS just clicking through stuff, and we could do the same on nostr with #hashtags (or NIP-72 communities) and usernames (yay, we have those).

Even more, you could go from user to NIP-05 provider, which basically gives a list of users under a single domain. Or you could show what kind of actual lists (NIP-51 lists) the user is part of, so you again have a list of users which you could use as a base for your exploration, populating the grid view which is the base of this image client. And again, because this is nostr, we get a "ghost" mode FOR FREE. You can use someone else's npub and look at things through their eyes. Some clients implement this quite well already. Most people have no idea that this is possible (because we suck at discoverability, including discoverability of features).

Pinstr is ALMOST there, but it takes like ~5 clicks to get to a hashtag (and it doesn't always work for me). Slidestr has potential and is also ALMOST there, but again, it takes like ~3 clicks to get to a profile and open it in Slidestr and you have to know exactly what you're doing, which isn't exactly discoverability-friendly. Same for hashtags, which are even more hidden, as as you have to open an almost invisible menu at the bottom of the image view.

Don't get me wrong, I love what we have. But we shouldn't be afraid to steal what other clients did well in the past, especially stuff that has been around for a long time. To me, the popular pics client is near perfect. No pop-ups. No modals. No unnecessary clicks. Everything makes sense and is in the right place. It doesn't waste space and is beautiful to boot.

I think we're very close to greatness on many fronts, and I hope that—with some technical improvements that are around the corner, as well with some help from #nostrdesign—we can finally kick some ass in the discoverability department too.

The harder problem is to have beautiful things to discover in the first place.

If I'd bootstrap an app like this, I would:

1. scrape pinterest, dribble etc like mad for high quality pics of things that the early nostriches are sure to like (memes, citadel castles, cars, hardware, user interfaces, regenerative ag builds, stable diffusion pics of ostriches, ...)

2. Create some npubs that post these with proper tagging etc

3. Create DVM filters for these topics and set them as the default

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Yep, you have to seed these platforms with content and we have the best tools to do this already. We're just missing the hacker spark.

I would start with a handful of categories and go deep into those before moving into another.

The content is there. I've seen many beautiful pictures on nostr, just look for #photography and go from there.

Examples: #マストドン写真部 #noedit

There's also plenty accounts that post beautiful stuff, you just have the discover them (oh, the irony!). Accounts like nostr:npub1tlgqfynfdyup4s4m8ge8yqpkm8ukxtfflv3dcxl4mra3e83x27vqrlj5tp

Nice one! Yeah I agree discoverability needs a lot of work and much of it is already designed in clients like Snort, but has not been implemented.

I was thinking more about platforms like Pinstr where there doesn't see much of anything there now, or Slidestr which seems full of totally random stuff - like I have no idea why I would go to a website that is random images lol

I follow #photography! But currently on Snort there is no good hashtag exploration implemented. We don't even show top hashtags anywhere as far as I know

Slidestr does an okay job and has some sensible default hashtags, but it could be improved by a lot (with just a few small tweaks, as per my original post).

https://slidestr.net/tags/noedit%2Cphotography

the masonry layout when coupled with visible tags felt too distracting for me. That's the part I was referring to - personal preference. I would rather see a column view if you keep the tags, or no tags visible but have a nice category selection somewhere, and prominent search. But show tags on individual items (especially on mobile)

https://void.cat/d/4AKYouoKi9e91131pszBwT.webp

https://void.cat/d/TPgdZnokkpYqCLqpP6N377.webp

I love masonry for its density, especially on very large screens. Still love it on mobile though (2 columns). It's the default for Pinterest too.

And I'm not a fan of text bleeding into images, as you need vignetting or darkening to make it always readable. But yes, personal preference I guess.

Yeah you do on light images. It depends on how users browse. Do they go into a category first and devour everything there? (maybe they dont care to see the text so much). Or do they click hashtag to hashtag and spend a bit of time in each (then it probably matters more). I think it could go either way.

As a photographer I despise any edit of the original image, no matter how slight.

Not sry 🤙

yep, 2 col is great on mobile and I like that the most

That's why I'm saying STEAL FROM THE BEST. Don't copy. Don't try to re-invent.

Pinterest has been doing it for a long time, they've figured the out how to do presentation (and discovery) best.

We can do zaps and other stuff they can't do, but we have to get the basic stuff right too. Copy the basic stuff from them.

💯

Interesting take