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"#Bitcoin is fungible because we repeat '1 Bitcoin = 1 Bitcoin' a lot"

something something dyor

the absolute state of Bitcoin maxis

SMDH

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gsovereignty 21h ago 💬 2

Fungibility is a spectrum. Monero is probably the most fungible thing we have, small amounts of cash is next (large amounts are less fubgible), then gold. Fiat in a bank account is the least fubgible.

When it comes to bitcoin it's a pretty good balance between making large scale State level corruption impossible while also making small transactions pretty fubgible. Rememeber that UTXOs get sliced and diced through history, it's like how we've probably all breathed in an oxygen atom that Hitler also breathed in.

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Discussion

Hanshan 21h ago 💬 2

yeah I don't buy it.

who breathes an oxygen atom isnt recorded on a transparent chain.

if you can distinguish, it ain't fungible.

Chainanal is going to map the entire utxo set and assign a risk score to every single one.

Hanshan 20h ago 💬 1

okay I thought about it a little bit more.

I should know better than to be so dismissive of your opinion lol.

Even if chain analysis assigns a risk score to every UTXO, if the market treats them as equivalent, then they are still fungible.

so rather than seeing things as black and white like I was trying to do, we should look at the market dynamics

🙏

gsovereignty 14h ago 💬 1

Also if it were absolutely fungible (private) then we would enter the outlaw phase much earlier and it would have much less chance of surviving. There would be no market demand for chainalysis because no regulated entity would be allowed to touch it in the first place.

And if it did manage to be successful despite being fully private it would become a victim of its own success because privacy at scale benefits large corrupt groups more than it benefits individuals.

ede3d957... 14h ago

A conscious society worthy of the name would flourish both on a transparent as well as a private standard.

Since the world is not perfect and never will be, we will have to live with degrees of freedom.

In the past (tribal society) everything was public, besides thoughts. Most of societies advances including ever more sophisticated rug pulls and countermeasures are based on privacy advancements.

Societies will thrive where privacy is a guaranteed default for individuals while trusted groups can openly share all information between each other for a social relationship net.

Hanshan 5h ago

I understand that transparency is a necessary property for a first mover in a new space like this. beyond the regulation aspect, user simply wouldn't trust it as a store of value.

but it harms users if they misunderstand and think that it's actually fungible.

Ike 16h ago 💬 2

Chainal is meaningless in a p2p economy

Hanshan 5h ago

anxiously waiting for ANY indication that there will ever be enough P2P value exchange for chain analysis to be meaningless

Ike 4h ago 💬 2

Never gonna be enough for you, mate

Hanshan 4h ago 💬 1

or maybe you're just hooked on hopium

Hanshan 4h ago

exhibit A

Ike 2h ago 💬 2

Hopium to transact p2p?

Another year and you are still as clueless as ever on how to use bitcoin, mate. Hoping you put some effort this year instead of the constant bashing, rooting for ya

Hanshan 2h ago

it's not anybody else's fault you don't understand what words mean.

BitcoinIsFuture 2h ago 💬 1

Bitcoin settled ~30% more value than Visa during 2025.

Hanshan 2h ago 💬 1

That's cool

but I'm curious how much of that is just exchanges consolidating their UTXOs

considering the mempool is basically empty, thinking at some point we're going to have the P2P usage so chain analysis is futile is hopium

BitcoinIsFuture 1h ago 💬 1

There is enough P2P usage even if some of the transactions are consolidations.

The chain analysis can't stop the P2P Bitcoin transactions.

It can affect some exchanges in certain juristdictions that must comply with certain regulations and that would be only in case the government is working against Bitcoin like Bidens Chokepoint policies. And as you well know there are ways to confuse that analysis.

Hanshan 1h ago

I'm not concerned about them being able to stop transactions (at this point anyway),

I just don't want them to know who is transacting with who. The fewer P2P transactions there are, the smaller the data set they have to deanonymize.

it goes back to the fungibility conversation. The more KYCed and known-by chainanalysis transactions exist, the lower the fungibility is on Bitcoin.

but like you say, we don't have enough clear data to really know what the proportion of self-sovereign usage/custodial or KYC usage is.

but unless people start making positive steps to increase their privacy, that proportion will turn toward zero.