Also Judges is before Kings. Both chronologically in the Bible and historically. King Saul and King David were both after the period of the Judges. Isaiah 22:22 is also referring to both a Jewish king (Eliakim) and is a foreshadowing (so to speak) of Christ Jesus the King of kings. Orthodox and Catholics are taught this because we are the ones that compiled the biblical canon.
Discussion
Do you not realize that, as I've said before, that God did not want any other king but Himself over the nation of Israel, whom He chose for Himself? Why in world do you Catholics and, to some extent, Orthodox, ignore that part of the story?
It is written in the first book of Samuel:
'And the Lord said to Samuel, βListen to the voice of the people regarding all that they say to you, because they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being King over them. Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this dayβin that they have abandoned Me and served other godsβso they are doing to you as well. Now then, listen to their voice; however, you shall warn them strongly and tell them of the [b]practice of the king who will reign over them.β So Samuel spoke all the words of the Lord to the people who had asked him for a king. And he said, βThis will be the practice of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and put them in his chariots for himself and among his horsemen, and they will run before his chariots. He will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to do his plowing and to gather in his harvest, and to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will also take your daughters and use them as perfumers, cooks, and bakers. He will take the best of your fields, your vineyards, and your olive groves, and give them to his servants. And he will take a tenth of your seed and your vineyards and give it to his high officials and his servants. He will also take your male servants and your female servants, and your best young men, and your donkeys, and use them for his work. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his servants. Then you will cry out on that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the Lord will not answer you on that day.β
'Yet the people refused to listen to the voice of Samuel, and they said, βNo, but there shall be a king over us, so that we also may be like all the nations, and our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.β Now after Samuel had heard all the words of the people, he repeated them in the Lordβs hearing. And the Lord said to Samuel, βListen to their voice and appoint a king for them.β So Samuel said to the men of Israel, βGo, every man to his city.β'
A king is a judge in place of God. If you are foolish enough to not want God as a judge and to be like other nations, then you will pay the price of that foolishness. I will not.
I agree, that Israel got a king because they rejected God and that human kings are corrupt. But that doesn't negate the point I was making. The verses I posted where to show that when God allows another to have authority over us we are to be obedient. This is of course subject to the moral law. You would not follow a human law to the violation of God's law.
The whole point is that authoritative hierarchies are NOT contrary to the good and to the will of God. Families being the prime example. It is specifically WANTING a human king at the top of the hierarchy in place of God that is the problem.
You can't just read Judges and ignore everything else. If you have a way to explain the points I made from the new testament, I am willing to consider it.
Why can't I point to the Nation God chose for Himself as an example and blessing to all other nations?
It isn't just Judges or Samuel or Kings. The whole of the Bible is one contiguous story of God attempting to redeem His creation.
David in the lion's den. The three brothers in the furnace. Heck, even the wild Samson. Jesus Himself.
All of those examples and more are all men and women who defied human authorities to do what is right in the eyes of God.
Show me the authority here on earth that is doing good. There is none. Therefore, I will do my best to follow Jesus as my king, even if I'm a blind, stumbling bafoon.
Let the people do whatβs right in their own eyes. It always worked out pretty well before. Ohhhh wait a sec.
Literally!!!!!!
I would argue that the Catholic Church is doing good. But I will also concede scandals that obscure it and hell will fill up with those that perpetuate them. I think it is possible that you cannot see the good that Christ is doing in his Church because you hate it. You see only the evil you want to see.
I would argue that claiming God was against king David being king is some of the worst exegesis Iβve ever come across. Protestants donβt even teach that, thatβs just Beave π
Sorry, the point I was trying to make wasn't that God is against kings, but rather the REASON the Israelites wanted a king was a rejection of God.
Your name isnβt Beave.
Yes. That is exactly my point. The desire for some human authority other than God. How does that NOT SOUND EXACTLY LIKE A POPE OR PATRIARCH?
Popery is such a horrifically illogical stance. Ugh. I love you, Dan, but please at least see the logical inconsistency of this position!
I agree that proper authority CAN exist. I will not agree that it DOES exist, ESPECIALLY not in the Catholic Church as a whole.
I am still working on your NT examples. I am not ignoring them. My work schedule sucks for having a contiguous discussion.