Subnostr

Yes, there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who also feel the need to go out of their way to tell me that I am not one.

I have no idea what happens after we die. I think what's more important is whether people are creating heaven or hell right here on earth. I also think (as the bible says) Jesus was trying to bring heaven to earth. I think the story of Jesus could save anyone who take the time to understand it.

But I don't think just saying you love Jesus is some sort of magic spell that grants people access to some sort of paradise after death. As far as I can tell, nothing in the Bible suggests that heaven is some sort of escape from earth.

Oddly enough, a lot of people who call themselves Christians also say that they want to be taken when Jesus returns, but it actually says that few will remain like Noah, implying that it's not the good who will be taken. The Bible also says a lot about how people will misunderstand everything. I definitely think there is a great deal of misunderstanding.

Willy Cooper 1y ago

We are all fallen. That is why so many people interpret the Bible differently. But there is one truth, one correct interpretation. I am sure no one knows it all on this earth. But there are fundamental things that Christians believe that you don't seem to believe. I think that is why some tell you that. I don't think any real Christian would tell you that just to "get you" or be mean.

Some of your questions are already answered in the Bible. I would suggest to study it more, more importantly believe it. And most importantly, live it.

If you truly believe you will repent. We show God we love Him by doing His will and following His commands. You can tell true believers and non believers by their "fruits".

Matthew 7:16-20 KJV

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

John 3:18

Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him."

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 16:31

They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household."

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Discussion

Jeff Swann 1y ago

I love the "know them by their fruits" refrences/passages. They were actually one of the keys to me realizing that there is a lot of metaphor used in the texts. When Jesus recognizes Nathaniel by the shade of the tree under which he sits, it is a reference to "know them by their fruit." When Jesus "kills the fig tree" I think he is actually just predicting that Israel (the fig tree) is falling into economic & political corruption.

When I point out that we are finite beings with a limited amount of time, resources, & even mental space, which makes it literally impossible to love everyone the way you love a sibling or friend. Churchers will then tell me that there are many different Greek words that we translate all to just "love," which is basically proof that we have translation problems. But somehow they isolate that fact from everything else they already believe about the Bible.

I know a lot of Churchers who have done nothing but drive people away from the church because instead of trying to actually understand a complicated text, & deal with honest questions, they insist on a flat interpretation that allows them to judge & condemn the people around them. More often than not they tell people they will pray for them as a way to imply they need help. They tell people to "repent & ask for forgiveness" as though they are the ones who judge & determine who needs to be better. If we judge people by their fruits there are a lot of Churchers who are not good Christians IMO. It is those unthinking types who I wanted nothing to do with that made me an atheist for as long as I was.

I said the Corinthians passage you referenced before "cuts both ways" because I think it's the self righteous Churchers who condemn others based on their own flat "letter of the law" vs "spirit of the law" interpretations who are actually caught up in just how wise they are.

The rest of the passages you reference here all hinge on what it means to believe in Jesus. I don't think your version of belief is in any way more valid than mine.

Willy Cooper 1y ago

God knows our minds Jeff. So it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you. None of us can really judge anyone else but we can warn them about not repenting of their sins or having a false belief.

I believe this conversation started because you said you did not believe Jesus died to save us? Or was a misinterpreting this? I am honestly still not clear what you are saying.

I would be curious what you think my version is and what your version is exactly?

Thanks Jeff, if you rather private message me this is fine too or just talk here. I am fine with either one.

Jeff Swann 1y ago

The way I see things, Jesus died because people are prone to status chasing above all else & to blindly aligning themselves with authority figures, both of which are stupid & easily the most destructive behaviors of all time. The lesson to be learned from the death of Jesus should be enough to save people from those behaviors, but unfortunately I think a lot of people, even those who seem to care, still miss it.

I will spend some time on the passages you DMed me sometime soon & we can continue there. Need sleep now 😴

Willy Cooper 1y ago

I am a relatively new believer myself. I don't have all the answers but I believe we can learn from each other.

God bless and sleep well.

Jeff Swann 1y ago

I have been an anarcho capitalist & bitcoin hodler for ~13+ years. I don't vote. I think people who pray to the American flag are worshipping a false idol. I have been eating only meat (no fruit or veggies) for 7+ years. I'm completely opposed to all vaccines now, in addition to the covid gene therapy jabs. I was often the only person in the store not wearing a mask during the plandemic. And I drive a ~$2000 car. All of that is just to make it abundantly clear that what other people think of me is rarely any concern, that's their business, not mine.

But church people are quite often hypocritical & emotionally abusive while engaging in lots of gas lighting. There is almost nothing that can make that sort of behavior worth tolerating. It's literally satanistic abuse, poorly hidden by fake smiles & fake happy tones, that drives people away from the church.

Willy Cooper 1y ago

If you are a Christian you will forgive those people and pray for them. Don't forget that we are no better than anyone else. We are all sinners.

Bitcoin Carlin 1y ago

Agreed Jeff. I find that the most literal or restrictive interpretations tend to actually sell God and the beauty of Jesus’s deeds short.

All ironically in the name of virtue signaling about “I believe these literal words harder than you do”.