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The reason I like both of those charts together is because they present two sides of 1 coin, and they are extremely fundamental measurements. Account for 300 zettajoules of energy and show it's not related to a proportional increase in co2. No one has been able to do it. I'm not stating more than that as the question.

I'm all for btc, I have cars, I fly, I love a steak, but I do not have my head in the sand.

We're arguing over how fast we are going and what the right speed whilst in free-fall.

elsat 2mo ago 💬 1

You are missing the forest for the grass.

Here is how to think clearly about the question of energy, and climate:

-you are focusing solely on co2's alleged warming effect

-you are completely ignoring the benefits of fossil fuels on human civilization

-fossil fuels power modern civilization, and have cut human loss of life by 98% over a century

-you are ignoring the greening effect of CO2, which causes global greening, makes farms more productive

The risk is restricting fossil fuels from delivering affordable, reliable, and cheap energy to billions of people and providing these people with the energy needed to escape poverty, and make a naturally dangerous climate safe.

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Deleted Account 2mo ago 💬 1

I'm really not, I'm well aware of the benefits. I'm also completely aware of the consequences you've raised. I could honestly state 20 benefits to smoking that would have verifiably accurate data in the 80's. Great social benefits, pleasant rush, conducive to thinking slow about problems, suppresses appetite.. Those are all correct facts. It's important that we don't ignore fundamentals, unless you're honestly saying that no amount of earth warming or co2 increase matters.

elsat 2mo ago 💬 2

You are clearly disregarding the benefits of fossil fuels if you comparing the base layer of civilization in energy to the social benefits of smoking

Pritchard 2mo ago 💬 2

Totally feel you on that! 🤦‍♂️ Comparing fossil fuels to smoking is wild. Energy is the backbone of our society, while smoking just ain't it. Let's keep it real! 💯 #EnergyMatters

Deleted Account 2mo ago

Think a bit more deeply. My example was simply to explain that you can have data proving all of your short term views.

Ike 2mo ago 💬 2

The world has been ending for almost 100 years, peak population, peak oil, peak food. By paying some global institution part of your slave bucks you will help keep the world cool, thou, so pay up and Al Gore will be proud of you.

There's a reason a lot of people are laughing at tools like you who still believe coastlines will be underwater and whatnot by 2050 or 2100. You or your parents were probably forced to hide under desks to survive the soviets, and did not see through the bullshit all your life.

Deleted Account 2mo ago 💬 1

Dude, you're shovelling a lot of anger my way that isn't justified. Here have some tissues. You don't have to be a zero or a 1, there's more room in the middle than on the fringe. I'm not the virtual embodiment of what you've got pictured in your head my bro.

Deleted Account 2mo ago

I love how this place is all "there's no free lunch".. and then I show them how much fundamental lunch is being consumed and they're like "shut up, it's free".

Ike 2mo ago 💬 1

Just a little compassion bro, so we don't drown bro, nature needs our help bro, spare just a dime bro, buy my electric car bro, there's more room where I am bro, eco-socialism could work bro, warmer weather is a net negative bro, funduhrmentals bro

Data-driven but religiously bootlicking

Deleted Account 2mo ago

Tell me about yourself without telling me about yourself. All good my man. Let's check in down the track.

Deleted Account 2mo ago 💬 1

Mate, it's not a comparison it's an analogy.

elsat 2mo ago 💬 1

It is not clear to me you care to admit the benefits of fossil fuel energy based on your vague replies.

This is a pattern I've noticed in folk who talk about "climate crisis", "the rate of change is too high" etc.

I have shared earlier a framework earlier that is quite simple:

-climate is naturally dangerous

-humans utilize fossil fuels to make this dangerous climate livable

-by restricting the means of abundance, cheap, reliable, and safe fossil fuel energy (what you and others are advocating for) you will endanger humans.

The failure to admit the civilization benefits of fossil fuels goes hand in hand with the failure to admit that humans have successfully adapted to a dangerous climate to make their environment safer, and will continue to do so.

Deleted Account 2mo ago

I never said climate crisis, and didn't make a comment about lifestyles other than that I probably live like you do. I'm not naive.

I'm also not ignoring the fact that the ocean is accumulating energy at a phenomenal rate. For fun I punched it into grok. 300 zettajoules over 50 years would take about 18.26 trillion kettles and the rate of energy increase is accelerating.

What I'm really saying is, you can talk about the benefits and the reasons why its important to have energy ad nauseam, you probably won't be wrong and I'm not here to judge, but keep an eye on those two chats because they do not care about your rationale.