first reasonable thing youve said all day.
its still bullshit to call observing BTC entering the swap and Monero arriving at the CEX "a monero timing analysis trace."
but retards gonna retard.
as long as we're clear that is what your claim is. I'm sure the reader can decide the rest.
What seems retarded to me is looking at a clear example of a timing analysis trace performed on monero and whining that I shouldn't call it that
just because a fact hurts your narrative doesn't mean it's false
monero is traceable, has been traced, and crimes have been pinned on people due to those traces
oh yeah and lightning offers better tools than monero for making a trace like this more difficult
Seems like you two need to agree on what is or isn’t a “trace” before you can have any constructive conversation. My only interest is in knowing what tools are best for privacy for the “average” user.
yeah i tried that last time.
but he thinks *knowing the address you sent something* is "tracing" it
sooo....
I think you both have valid points but disagree on “definitions” as a non technical person I try to understand both your arguments but I don’t really have the knowledge to verify what either of you are saying. To me it seems the Monero has the best privacy and lightning is private is used properly (node, self custody, etc) but has other limitations such as tx size.
it's part of every poisoned output trace so...yup
Give me your honest take on Monero vs lightning privacy but also addressing any limitations or benefits of each
something being "part of" a larger thing doesnt mean the definition covers that something.
Again back to definitions and meaning you guys need to agree on a dictionary first and interpretation of lol
unfortunately its the internet and words are all we have
but thats exactly why it's important to challenge people who want to redefine them to push their own agenda.
In any case I am interested to hear both sides of the argument because privacy is probably the most undervalued aspect that I want to learn more about
hey I don't think so actually.
Words *already mean something.
to use the example of our last little argument, if I send someone a letter or something to your address, nobody calls that "tracing the letter"
The sender knowing where something goes isn't the definition of "tracing"
So when STN comes along and is like "oh well actually that IS tracing because reason"
No.
The word doesn't mean that. It isn't subjective and we don't have to reach an agreement on definitions before I tell him hes full of shit.
if we have to agree first, then its all like peoples pronouns. "i identify this word as this" and "acknowledge my different interpretation"
we dont want to go there.
I can agree with the logic of knowing where you send something is not tracing. Following it to destination beyond where you sent it would be tracing.
I guess what I mean is words can have multiple definitions and meaning depending on context and culture which can lead to miscommunication.
thats just obvious
the point here tho is that prior consensus about definitions shouldn't be necessary
I say that identifying the destination of your own coins counts as tracing. You may think it doesn't, that's fine. But focusing on whether it technically counts as tracing or not is missing the point, which is: it is bad for receiver privacy for the sender to learn that info. Monero gives that info to the sender for free. Lightning doesn't. That's a point in LN's favor.
then I suggest you frame the problem in those terms since they actually communicate what the real risk is to the reader.
calling it something that it isn't communicates something different.
of course I understand that saying
"its bad for receiver privacy that the sender knows the destination of their payment" isnt as fun as saying "its bad monero is traceable"
but those two statements are not equivalent.
For what I gather in the incognito bust the cex reported him to the Feds for the amount of money he was receiving with out being able to show proof of income…
After that the Feds only traced bitcoin and what was deposited into the cex…
The Feds have not bought drugs with bitcoin…
The Feds watched the btc get washed to xmr and saw it deposited in the cex… (was he really swapping btc straight to an exchange addy or vice versa?)
it looks like their could have been a wallet between the swap and the CEX,
but he still sent it as soon as he could
which makes timing analysis possible.
the fbi agents testimony say they bought drugs off incognito at least 5 times.
nah
you're the retard cause its not a "trace performed on monero"
it's just knowing that XMR arrived in a perps exchange wallet
and you're trying like hell to sell it as something it isnt.
maybe you should advocate for strong privacy on Bitcoins base layer instead of redefining words to fud monero?
just sayin...
> it's just knowing that XMR arrived in a perps exchange wallet
it's not "just" knowing that
it's knowing that the "right amount" of monero arrived in a perp's exchange wallet "in the right time frame" so as to connect it to the "same" amount "withdrawn from" another service
i.e. a timing analysis trace
which is exactly what I said it was
but all thats observed *on the monero side* is XMR arriving at the perps wallet
which is not "tracing monero" except in your weird fantasy world of made up definitions nobody else uses or agrees with.
agree its the timing analysis trace of a Bitcoin to Monero swap tho 👍
you just wanna make it into something bigger to sell your sexy webpage, i get it.
thank you for calling my webpage sexy, that is not an adjective I expected anyone to use for it
