Nostr Web Client

Where did you get the idea you just need 1 relay? Do you also just use 1 website on the internet?

The whole relay thing just requires people to build intuition around it, and the first people are need to do so are developers. For the most part, client developers either fucked up the relay part (Damus in the beginning, and Primal to this day), or they shoved it into the background.

Its only more recently that developers more broadly are figuring it out and are experimenting and exploring the possibilities. Not just in functionality but also in how they present it to the user.

I don't think this intuition out of reach for the normie, i don't see why it would be; its very analoge actually and maps well to the physical world in many instances. The same goes for keypairs actually.

In any event, Nostr does in fact introduce a new paradigm, and we are just figuring out what the implications are as we go along. As such i am patient and not too worried at this stage. As long as i see progress i remain hopefull we 'get there'.

What client do you use, and have you tried nostr:npub1yzvxlwp7wawed5vgefwfmugvumtp8c8t0etk3g8sky4n0ndvyxesnxrf8q ?

RedTailHawk 2mo ago 💬 1

"People stumble over the relay part.

Both these things apply to Nostr:

A: The specific relay does not matter;

B: The specific relay is all that matters."

That part is somewhat ambiguously suggestive that a single relay would be sufficient.

"The whole relay thing just requires people to build intuition around it"

Absolutely fucking not. Intuition is several steps down the line. You're putting WAY too much on a normie noob with that. No. Super detailed tech shit is NOT an intuition. It is knowledge based, end of story.

"Its only more recently that developers more broadly are figuring it out and are experimenting and exploring the possibilities. Not just in functionality but also in how they present it to the user."

Agreed and they suck at figuring it out because they don't normie test their stuff because that's costly and frustrating to have to deal with normies and cater to normie levels of understanding. Some devs are really good about this but they are few and far between. Most devs don't even like people. That's why they decided to spend all of their time with computers instead of people. Most devs are severely out of touch with normies...SEVERELY.

"I don't think this intuition out of reach for the normie, i don't see why it would be;"

This is the problem. Out of touch. This is a projection. You've never tested this notion of yours with a normie pulled at random from the sidewalk or the McDonald's drive through.

What you're not understanding is that we don't even know how to begin to manage, select, switch, etc. relays. We don't even know where to turn for help because different people tell us different things. It's a fucking shitshow.

NOSTR needs a "just make it fucking work, I'm a fucking noob" option.

I don't see it happening until the implementation of NIPs across NOSTR clients becomes more organized. Right now, the whole thing is a disorganized shitshow. I'll probably fall down dead the day that there's a NOSTR client that works across platforms without random glitches every other day that isn't a pain in the ass to get set up on.

This is never going to take off. Normies will not come here. It's too hard and the people who have the ability to make it easier are out of touch with the Normie conception of "too hard".

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Constant 2mo ago 💬 1

As far as i see it you are complaining the web is never going to take off because you are required to type in h t t p : / / W W W dot, in front of every website url you want to visit.

Normal people, are doing everyday things, that are far more complex than understanding location.

What? Are 'normal users' confused you go to the pharmacy to buy medicine, and to the bakery to buy bread? And there are all these different bakeries, how is a normal person supposed to know and understand which one he should go to, and then there are the opening times. And then sometimes, the shop is closed for some reason, and then the user is just supposed to go to a different shop?????

Shopping is never going to take off, its too confusing for normal people, you cant expect them to understand all these things.

Sending letters? Are you crazy??? How many stamps do i need? Where do i put them?? The adress, i need to write that down? How do i even know the adress of the person i want to send a letter. And i have to put the letter in the correct box? This is insaine, no normal users is ever going to send letters, the postoffice is out of touch!!!

Seriously, relax, in the grand scheme of things, all we are doing here (be that bitcoin and now Nostr, both residing in this new crypto paradigm), is a new way of doing things. But there is nothing about this stuff that makes it impossible for the everyday person to build comprehension. I am not projecting, i am just further allong and see how its not much different in terms of complexity of systems we were completely accustomed to in the past.

Stretch your timelines friend, this a process over generations, i.e. decades not years. And the way you are screaming makes me think you are on a months timeline.

Garbage nsec 1mo ago 💬 1

"over generations" .... Nostr isn't even quantum resistant. Shor's destroys nostr in it's entirety. Not even Grover's and quadratic speedup but the lowest hanging Shor's fruit. Every public key is public! The lower bound for Shor's is 1,700 logical qbits. We're at 24 now, possibly 48. Within 1 generation we will be at the lower bound, if not within 10 years. (If not within 5 years.)

Time to hard fork and start over. A lot of good stuff can be ported over. But this Nostr we have now, there is no chance for it on a technical level, to say nothing of user adoption and all that.

This is 2025. You just cannot build a new protocol on a Shor's un-hardened curve with all the public keys happily public and zero scope for curve migration, it's insanity.

Chicken Legs 1mo ago 💬 1

Yeah there’s not much lead time to become quantum resistant before potential quantum threats can materialise.

I’m new to nostr.. I kind of just assumed there’d be a semi orderly scramble to get the network defended.

Coming from btc, it can take a fair while to get consensus and then develop, and then roll out trial period, and then mass adoption.. by the time you get from the first debate to the mass adoption, you’re running critically close to a “quantum threat arriving in 5 years” scenario..

Hopefully btc, nostr and any other community driven network can get itself covered and converted with time to breathe rather than a wild rush near the end.

Gotta admit I could put my quantum knowledge on a single a4 page though.. Do you recommend any resources to help understand the technical threat to nostr?

Garbage nsec 1mo ago

Bitcoin is also in a bind but has the following on its side:

-The greatest damage to bitcoin requires messing with SHA-256 (not scep256k1), which requires grover’s algo, which is way harder to make useful

-For scep256k1 (shor’s algo, lowest hanging quantum fruit) there is some scope to migrate curves

-Only about 30% of scep256k1 public keys are known (if unknown that provides some protection)

Nostr is in a hopeless situation:

- Everything is scep256k1 (where something else like AES-256-CBC is used scep256k1 is still the weakest link in the dependency)

- Virtually all public keys are known, virtually all events are easily retrieveable

- There is zero scope to migrate curves (despite some nonsense suggestions to the contrary)