Self-custody is the way… except for when it comes to receiving zaps… for now… For that custodial wallets are still the only viable solution for the average user. Hopefully that changes. But until it does it is bad advice to tell new users to only use Phoenix/Breez/Mutiny on Nostr, and it shows your ignorance of reality.
Most important thing now is to onboard as many as possible, make them feel welcome and help them educate them selves on Bitcoin and importance of self custody when they are ready for it. WoS is perfect for people new to the Nostr/BTC space.
💯 it’s a process. Education and continued exposure to the various tools that exist, and the rationale for each, is what’s important. Then leave people to make their own decisions. Too many who want to play nanny and fail to meet people where they’re at.
The average user should stay away from receiving zaps if it can only be done with a custodial bank account. It permanently distorts their perception of what bitcoin is.
Cool web3/metaverse/whatever gimmicks don't make it ok to use shitcoins. That's just what custodial bitcoin is, a shitcoin.
I don’t agree. That strikes me like saying the average user should stay away from Bitcoin if they need to buy it on an exchange.
Buy Bitcoin. Learn self custody. Then self-custody the sats you have, regardless of how you acquired them.
This will be enough to onboard people and make them bitcoiners. It worked for most of us.
>it worked for most of us
False. Most people that ever bought bitcoin on exchanges are not bitcoiners today. Most did not understood its value and sold when appropriate.
It's delusional to think that onboarding people thorough gated regulated exchanges and custodial banks is going to make them appreciate the value of freedom money.
“It worked for most of us”
I should have qualified that, by saying “it worked for most of us who are here now, as bitcoiners.”
It’s a good point/open question whether most people who purchase on an exchange ever take self custody. Presumably there is some analytic function that could get a number, but I don’t know.
But I’d argue, anecdotally, that numerous nostr users - who discovered Bitcoin here - started with WoS and have been learning about Bitcoin and self custody over the past few months. Learning how to take care of the stack that they’re building (and KYC-free, as a bonus).
You're literally describing Survival Bias: "we went through that and survived, so this must be a good idea!"
😂 Got me with that argument
I think there’s an organic and “convenient” way to onboard plenty of new bitcoiners and get them into self-custody, at scale. Realistically, we won’t onboard the world in our lifetime if we don’t use stepping stones. Even better to build stepping stones that improve custody, privacy, etc etc.
But voices like yours will remain important, especially in this context. If it makes a newbie say “wait wtf is my Bitcoin safe?”, that’s a very important question for each of us to ask
It’s early days. Willing to bet most went through the centralised route to acquire bitcoin. But it does largely depend on the individual and what they do/learn from then on. What do you propose is the best way to onboard users to make them appreciate the value of freedom money?
It's best to transmit your leanerd experiences and make them avoid the same mistakes: shitcoins, exchanges, kyc, defi, yield, custodial LN, etc.
I know we agree that custodial solutions are not solutions.
Even with the best of intentions, these services may inadvertently become rug-pulls of a sort if they are forced to implement KYC.
That said, I am comfortable keeping a few thousand sats on WoS, purely for zapping others, if it sparks their curiosity and excitement about Bitcoin, Lightning, and freedom tech.
I’d rather hold the door open to have the conversation, offer the guidance, and help them do it right. Again and again, I would choose that.
I do recall hearing that some self-custodial LN services are working on a solution for static Lightning addresses. Hopefully it won’t be long until this debate fades into irrelevance ⚡️🤙
True. Which is why my experience tells me to use an easy-to-use custodial wallet that works in Nostr for tiny sat tips entirely because it just works…for now. And to never hold a significant amount with the likes of WoS etc. Significant bitcoin stacking is a whole different ball park and that indeed needs more transmission of learned experiences.
We need to focus on educating them.
Satoshi Nakamoto left us with precious little advice, but even his advice suggests practicality on this, screen shot of his post from 2010:
Ok here goes:
1.think of your lightning wallet as your “bill fold” you carry only a small amount of cash(cash for the weekend, or night out), DON’T KEEP MUCH HERE, like $100 -$200 just like a bill fold, rug pull won’t affect much.
2. Think of your “software” self-custody wallet as your checking account. This could be something like “brave wallet” or coinbase wallet. But must be self custody. Keep a month or so salary here.
3.think of your hardware/cold storage as your savings account. This is your NEST EGG.
If you think that way, fees/convenience dominate the lightning wallet choice. And just like loosing your billfold (it sucks) but won’t affect your destiny.
Features/convenience dominate the “software” wallet. This wallet is self custody and keeps a month or so of working cash. Typically hooked up to an exchange for moving coin in and out, and sending to your LN wallet.
security dominates the cold storage wallet decision (e.g. multi-sig air-gap multi-vender etc…
This is the way. As someone well versed in the ideology of the technicals, after setting up my own Lightning node/channels/etc. recently, I can confirm that practice is much harder than theory. The average user will NEVER be able to truly self-custody. It’s not feasible.
💯
I had a great non custodial setup going with my CLN node and a few handy CLN plugins. It was a whole process to set up…very fun but very technical, and fragile. But it worked, and I was happy.
Then Apple went and banned zaps and that ruined my whole setup.
Now I handle zaps with my Alby wallet. I feel dirty but it’s so much easier.
The thing is: that’s kinda fine, no? What mean unless you’re sending/receiving real sums of money over zaps, I’m not concerned about the counterparty risk.
A mix of both is fine. Definitely want to keep non custodial for larger sums and cold storage for the stack.
