Nostr Web Client

False, only within the Ark itself (assuming the poors they market too can afford the unilateral exit).

Payments TO the Ark, either from real actual Lightning or another Ark via Lightning, are trusted because the swap makes the Ark the payer such that it can collude with itself.

The chain physics are what they are and Ark is claiming to have a perpetual motion machine... they're scammers, don't be fooled.

Guy Swann 2mo ago

If anyone else has a channel in the Ark and another outside the Ark they can be a bridge. If you are doing normal transaction in the Ark, *then* they are the payer. But if you open a channel to someone else who has a bridge out, then they are simply swapping Lightning with Ark channel balance and accepting that risk.

And the Ark can only collude with itself until the transaction has been “settled” in the periodic closings that allow the Ark to get its old liquidity back. There is a gap where there is a collusion risk, but the cost of closing that risk is split up among all participants.

It’s not magic, it’s just a huge batching system with a time delay to when the user is truly in control. I’d argue calling them scammers simply because it’s not exactly like lightning is a stretch, imo.

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Discussion

Alex B. 2mo ago

You are wasting time arguing with someone who is coping about his failed products

Guy Swann 2mo ago

I mean I like Justin, he’s always been a good guy, but I don’t see the same on this issue for sure.

I also can’t see how Ark does anything other than provide a net benefit to the entire Lightning ecosystem either. It seems like it really serves the role of “channel factories” that we never got due to the sheer difficulty of coordination involved. Excited to see this in action on mainnet after years of quiet building.

It’s also not as if Lightning or Ark are perfect, but they seem to me to be very similar and very prudent trade offs to get different benefits that work fantastic when used together.

Justin (shocknet) 2mo ago

It's literally an attack on the Lightning system, to centralize it, and in so doing provide surveillance tooling.

Coordination is just centralization, people didn't like the centralization of LSP's batching, and the costs is so low it's already irrelevant, so these scammers just re-branded it and added-in some false narratives.

Neither are perfect because there are immutable physics of the chain, Lightning is emergent from those, and Ark just lies about it.

Justin (shocknet) 2mo ago

Keep fishing for those narratives scammer, you'll find one eventually.

You've never built a damn thing, just a shill for hire and not even a good one.

My stuff isn't even packaged for distribution, and you're only on Nostr because of the original ShockWallet I built in my spare time.

Guy Swann 2mo ago

Welp, I'm out of this one, you guys have fun though.

Justin (shocknet) 2mo ago

You can't do a transaction *in* Ark until you trusted a bridge.

The trust assumptions are no different than a zero-conf channel that can be upgraded at any time.

Lightning already has batching, no one uses it because cost isn't the bottlneck.

It's very simple, Ark just adds centralization and trust with new branding, nothing more. The chain physics are what they are, there's nothing new here.