sorry... Neal... do you know what fungibility means? if so, please, could you tell me what makes dollars *not* fungible? specifically physical cash, dollar bills, as seen in the image. I'd love to hear more! thanks.
Discussion
To the best of my knowledge, fiat currency is legally defined as being fungible, but since it has serial numbers, I recently saw an article that was talking about how Germany was putting serial number readers into like ATMs and banks so they could track the flow of fiat currency even in physical form by reading the serial numbers.
At least as far as knowing that it came out of this bank in this one town and went into a different bank in this other town, say halfway across the country, and maybe even put serial number readers in store cash registers so that you can see which stores it went through.
Can you share the article if you remember?
I cant find it at the moment...
Fungible goods are interchanbly equal.
A 10g gold coin is the has the same value as any other 10g gold coin.
When they print dollars, the moment they inject them into the money supply, the real value of every dollar is debased, no value is created and instead value is extracted out of existing dollars to fill the new dollars.
the trouble is, those new dollars are spent as if they were old dollars, without the extracted value. As the market catches on, they adjust prices or the quality of product, but that is after those who have the dollars first already spend them.
So there is a gradient, a slope, a dollar with wet ink has more purchasing power than the dollar earned at a 9-5.
They are not equal.
The same goes for new gold or new anything. A glut of wheat supply lowers its price, a bushel of wheat is still fungible.
It is precisely because newly printed dollars are exchangeable with existing dollars that this debasement is possible.
but with gold proof of work which tethers it to reality allows the market to adjust. that is categorically different that when they injected 6T of covid money from nothing
when the real value is created and put into monetary objects, those natural forces don’t break the market.
that’s not the case with in our monetary system.
the objective proof is literally the middle class. that’s why it gets hollowed out with fiat, and is vibrant and healthy with more sound money
Okay. Not disagreeing with any of that.
But your definition of "fungible" is your own, it's a stretch of logic and definitions and your argument on that doesnt really hold water.
I understand what you’re saying.
i’m not straying off at all.
fungible is replaceable with an identical item.
if you just look at the monetary object, a jar is a jar.
but what is importsnt is its essence, what is inside.
a jar of mayo is not fungible with a jar of pickles, even if it’s the same jar.
a full jar of mayo is not fungible with a half full jar of mayo.
just because someone tricks another into believing its it’s fungible doesn’t make it so.
it’s not my definition, i’m just applying Aristotle’s definition of money to our modern system.
I walk step by step in my book.
But fungiblity is a material attribute of money, so it admits of more or less.
it’s ok to say gold isn’t perfectly fungible.
the point is dollars are more like gemstones than gold.
btc achieves maximal fungiblity
No, it doesn't, for if it did, ordinals and rare sats would not exist.
If you want perfectly fungible money, just like you would have in physical cash, look at #Monero.
When someone says something flat on it's face ridiculous, you know that theres no point in continuing the conversation. Just laugh and move on.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one because physical cash is not exactly the most fungible currency there is, since there's so many things that differentiate dollar bills such as serial numbers, signatures, etc.
That's true. The only reason that physical cash is fungible is because it's considered legally fungible. But as you mentioned, because of serial numbers and markings, etc., it's not technically fungible.
You are a good example that one can have good points and still draw faulty conclusions.
BTC is transparent. You can tie/ID everything on it.
Monero is the fungible money you were looking for all the time. If you let go off your maxi ideology like so many before you, you'll able to see it as well.
Both Bitcoin and Monero are complimentary, but they achieve different objectives. Try to only use Bitcoin in your life. Go to the dark avenues a challenge your beliefs. If you haven't has an account or payment frozen it only tells me that you are not using it enough. Try to use it for everything and draw your fungibility conclusions from there.
In other words put yourself in the shoes that walked this path before you. Like many earliest Bitcoiners that found out on their way that Bitcoin is not enough - some of them the hard way.
Fungiblity is interchangeablity, which is different from being perfectly identical, which is also different than being perfectly private.
I understand the block is transparent.
Quite simply, those privacy issues are solved on other layers.
TCP/IP isn’t stupid because there isn’t a VPN integrated into it. The VPN just sits ontop.
General compute proof of work is a huge security risk.
Privacy on the base layer of money puts cart before the horse.
"it’s ok to say gold isn’t perfectly fungible."
"btc achieves maximal fungiblity." — nostr:npub18zsu6xlfpwdgnrfyzhwpq80ssu83tdew5g7dkzkl4tavsrgzl5yslzlyv6. 💯