I know what he's trying to say, but isn't this an argument for socialism too?
I am a selfish mother fucker, and I selfishly choose to have children and teach them to do the same.
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Discussion
At the family scale socialism is a feature.
Very unclear to me how you came to the conclusion I am arguing for socialism here lol
Hedonism and selfishness have been blurred into meaning the same thing by socialists imo. Just another attack on words. Being selfish in actions has the potential to end up being what’s best for society (see shire’s example).
I think the first sentence could have been better. The rest is right.
Having kids is a selfish choice and that's great.
I definitely don’t view children as being a selfish choice. It’s opposite from my perspective. I think forgoing children as being the selfish choice.
Why did you have children?
I'll answerb for me:
- MY legacy
- MY purpose
- MY enjoyment
- to make MY life full and interesting
I think those are all good and valid reasons.
For me it was more about giving.
Mainly giving them more than I was given.
I don’t think many if any of us have a legacy beyond the people we know in our lifetimes.
Giving them more than you were given to prove to yourself that you are more capable than the person who was supposed to give to you, I bet. Ego, selfishness - fine and healthy.
The frame on this original question is off for me.
This is all modern thinking.
Having children is really not a choice.
It’s just nature.
The way we view it as a choice is kind of weird.
Always had the choice to stick around or not though. It's roughly the same thing as choosing to have or not to have any imo.
I had children because I wanted a full life experience (selfish), but after they arrived I wanted to give them more than I was given, and I likely won’t be around to see it. Legacy doesn’t exist. You’ll barely be remembered a decade after you die. One in 100 million maybe get 100 years.
It depends. Not by everyone, but maybe you can write down a piece of yourself about your life and what you thought was important that some of your descendants with a similar temperament will connect to. Worth the chance imo.
Both can be true.
Having children is more about giving your life purpose & meaning is it not. When you stop thinking only about yourself and now your kids that you need to teach, nurture, take care of and watch grow should give a sense of awakening about what matters and what doesn’t.
I wouldn’t deem living as a self-sovereign individual in a capitalist society as selfish though.
In a way, it’s one of the least selfish things to do; not demanding or coercing anyone to provide anything for you.
You want to keep your own money and not be responsible for anyone you didn't sign up to being responsible for. That's selfish and that's fine.
People don't conceptualize selfishness properly imo.
I think most people conceptualize selfishness with greed.
Greed is good. I’m a capitalist jabronie.
I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.
Thomas Sowell
Agreed.
Yeah .. I think there's a lot to unpack there. Although he seems to be tackling the point of view of an absolute, self centered, hedonistic person. Not necessarily the qualities I would attribute to a socialist, and definitely not making the arguement in favour of socialism.
Personally, I like to mix it up with a little of Rand's selfishness, a bit of Chomsky's truth to power, and top it off with some of Camus's absurdity .. I find it goes down a treat 🤙🏼
Agree. Just the first sentence was confused. Selfishness is moral.
Selfishness + high time preference (short time horizon) results in a pretty shitty society. It's what we have now.
Selfishness + a long time horizon allows for trust based relationships to be built. It allows the individual to realize that cooperation (the copy cat strategy) achieves the best selfish outcomes.
The incentive to act honestly while punishing bad actors only evolves when individuals have a low time preference.
I think he is talking about the hedonism of single people without purpose. You choosing a path for your family is leadership.
It seems more like he is connecting with eastern philosophy that sees true happiness achieved only when one has become selfless. It’s not about politics, it’s about awareness of the ego and trying to convene with the collective consciousness. You still do things for yourself but the aim of such wisdom is to find happiness through devotion to others and the divine. For we are the others. And we are the divine.