Gold is the second-best reserve asset.
Monero is a short-term savings vehicle.
Completely different asset classes. Only Bitcoin spans all classes.
Discussion
Spans all classes of what? I can see that Bitcoin is the current long term champion so far as a digital reserve asset
But long term savings aside, what about in terms of a usable currency? No privacy, weaker fungibility, and expensive to transact on with any frequency
We have a plethora of useable currencies, at the moment. I'm rather agnostic about them.
I own euros, US dollars, Lightning sats, and silver coins, because those are the ones I need and I am not interested in splitting my "spending money" up into 15 different pots. 4 pots is already ridiculous.
I see. Makes sense. Each has a unique combination of properties (Bitcoin vs Monero vs Cash vs Precious metals), but if you don't need them you don't need them.
Thanks for your two cents
>I can see that Bitcoin is the current long term champion so far as a digital reserve asset
Bitcoin is the absolute mathematical scarcity. That's not 'so far' it's for ever. You can't rediscover something again and call it an absolute mathematical scarcity. That's the main difference and the reason why every shirtcoiner with half a brain, wants to hold #Bitcoin too.
>No privacy, weaker fungibility, and expensive to transact on with any frequency
You have never properly explored liquid or lightning and it shows. If you run your own #LN node, as a sender, you have the same level of privacy & fungibility as monero or any other 'private' shirtcoin out there. As for 'expensive', LN is way, way cheaper than monero.
As for privacy, have you ever thought of how good an idea it is to write and keep forever written the 'private' transactions on-chain?
What will happen when quantum computers become a thing? We all will move to a quantum resistant algorithm, but all your 'private' transactions will become a public ledger, linking them all nicely together. Call it what it is, a temporary privacy at best.
Yes, a second layer like LN does fix this too. Consider using it between your #BTC and XMR to break the link, if you insist on using that shirtcoin.
Any historical extrapolation about price into the future is speculation. This is what I mean by "so far" as I cannot predict the future with 100% certainty. Bitcoiners hyperfocus on supply, while never acknowledging the other side of the equation that is out of our control: demand. Price discovery is a never ending process. Scarcity doesn't mean nothing without demand.
Liquid is custodial, doesn't hide senders or receivers, IP visible by default, and has a microscopic anon set (most blocks have 0 transactions. Whenever you see only 1 transaction that is the coinbase.) https://liquid.network/blocks
Sovereign Lightning has too many problems to list...Can be rugged if your node is offline, you need to manage channel liquidity, arbitrarily limited in the amount you can send, both parties must be online to receive, can be force closed, etc etc etc... 99% of users aren't going to run their own nodes.
Sender privacy and ephemerality are the highlights of privacy on Lightning.
Receiver privacy is bad.
Amounts are discoverable by probing.
Centralization makes this easier.
Continuing centralization of massive routing nodes negates/reduces any help from onion routing. Majority of network relies on these for successful routing and cheapest fees (incentives opposite to decentralization and privacy)
"Lightning is a privacy nightmare" -Giacomo
https://youtu.be/P1PRKKlI-Jo?si=OXtZUHPiBmanbNuC&t=1691
"Rethinking Lightning" -Benthecarman
https://stacker.news/items/379225
"The problems with LN..." -Paul Sztorc
https://twitter.com/Truthcoin/status/1719388665107947959
"Lightning Network -- Fundamental Limitations"
https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/lightning-limitations
Unresolvable critical security issues discovered that cannot be fixed without base layer changes:
lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2023-October/004154.html
"All your mempool are belong to us" -Antoine Riard
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2023-October/004154.html
"I consider LN a done deal..." -SBW
https://njump.me/nevent1qqsv5jyfh9gp2qnhruevrph39s2mspzfw3e9mx5avg0wenltrdjnnhgsx4pzg
Devs telling you its not private:
bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/state-of-bitcoin-lightning-network-privacy
"Are LN users naively thinking LN is private?"
https://stacker.news/items/234993
Channel Force Close Bot
https://coracle.social/npub169n9eaf0t20j0nefwqlqtnqcpsym22k2nw6e3tevtrrru4et7wrsh5w47v
Didn't realize less than half a cent to transact on Monero was so expensive. Especially for all the problems you don't have to deal with vs Lightning.
Be more specific with the word "temporary". The lifespan of the sun is temporary. What use is ephemerality if you don't have strong privacy "now" (ignoring that 95% of lightning users are not private or sovereign)? Maybe Moneros encryption will be completely cracked long after everyone that used it is dead, and Monero has long moved on to better methods (because it is also not static and always improving privacy such as upcoming FCMPs w/ Seraphis)
Finally zero people with skin in the game, like DNMs, whose life depends on privacy, don't use Lightning.
I'm not talking about scarcity, I'm talking about absolute mathematical scarcity.
Never said #LN is perfect but sender's privacy is on par with that shirtcoin of yours. And no, it doesn't have a perfect privacy neither.
Do you exclusively hold only XMR?
Doesn't matter. If demand changes the price can drop and we can't control that. 15 years is not a lot of time. Things change. The future is uncertain. Peoples desires are fickle. Price prediction is always speculation.
LN needs more than just sender privacy. Yes, Monero doesn't have perfect privacy either, but it's more well-rounded and specialized than Lightning (sender obfuscation, completely hidden amounts and addresses, network level privacy via dandelion) and all simply by default.
You already know I don't. Difference is I don't take Bitcoin as some inevitable mathematical law of the universe. I know I'm speculating and I know I could be wrong. And I know it's properties aren't ideal for the original goal of digital cash.
Use whatever you feel is best and I'll do the same. We probably agree on 99% of things just not about LN.
Exactly. Like every other shirtcoin shill out there, you own #Bitcoin because deep down you know if some other coin become "the one", there will be mayhem and another coin will soon replace it. And then another... and the governments will again, become the only stable island for the majority.
Every single shirtcoin out there needs Bitcoin. Not the other way round.
Like I said, just because I speculate (betting) Bitcoin will do well as a digital asset in the near term, isn't me saying it is a good digital cash (no privacy, not fungible, expensive to transact). It's no surprise we don't agree if you can't understand these simple differences and separate them in your mind.
You're also mistaken in equating the LN network (which was the original subject that *you* brought up! Not me!) with Bitcoin (on chain). So whatever criticisms I have about the LN network are not the same criticisms I have about Bitcoin.
You're betting on random shirtcoins they do well while holding #Bitcoin. FTFY
Bitcoins price can climb to 1 trillion and it still wont make it private, cheap, or fungible FTFY
Clearer?
Monero price can climb to 1 trillion and it still will be a shirtcoin like the rest FTFY
Clearer?
Lol, always tossing red herrings and arguing in bad faith Yellen. We will never agree so this is pointless. I like your memes though
Not in bad faith. You're a shirtcoiner, pretending in bad fight that the absolute mathematical scarcity ain't important. Without it, none of the copy pasta digital bits have any value and the governments will win again.
Other shirtcoiners are getting it, you one day might too.
I never said scarcity is not important, I just don't hyperfixate on it because it isn't the whole picture as yall make it out to be.
Irrelevant link, but if you're taking Seths word as gospel, are you going to now use Monero? Because Seth is a big Monero proponent and more aligned with my perspective. He uses both for different reasons the same way I do.
Absolute mathematical scarcity is something, no shirtcoin will ever have. That's why you hate to see Bitcoiners even mentioning it.
The link is relevant, it has a message for you. Without #Bitcoin any shirtcoin is just a dust.
Do you want to use a shirtcoin, use it. But stop pretending it is better than #Bitcoin. It isn't. If it was, you would be 100% in it.
Monero is a tool, like is #LN or the dollar. I suggested you use LN between BTC on chain and XMR. Instead of a thank you, you started shitting on everything like a true shill.
It's just software bro, it's not some law of physics. If consensus changes in the future, especially as mining security decreases because of falling block rewards, even "absolute mathematical scarcity" can change. Several Bitcoin Developers, including Peter Todd, are open to tail emission in Bitcoins future.
"Could Bitcoin Add Tail Emission?"
https://petertodd.org/2022/surprisingly-tail-emission-is-not-inflationary
Speaking of dust, the more popular Bitcoin becomes, the larger the dust limit grows, ironically!
Only facts here. Monero IS better when it comes to cheap, simple, and private transactions. Better digital cash. Sorry if that upsets you so much. Find a healthier way to deal with it. Better historical store of value? Bitcoin wins.
I didn't ask for your suggestions. And no one will with your bad attitude. You just inserted yourself into this conversation and were hostile from the start. LN is an overly complex dumpster fire, with half-ass "privacy", and garbage UX. Even it's creators agree with me! So take your suggestions and kindly GFY!
So you're a #Bitcoin security budget expert now too? Because Peter is talking about tail emission, it doesn't mean it will happen. Bitcoin will always be more secure than the shirtcoin of yours has right now.
Yes please, GFY retard 🤙💜