Nostr Web Client

Translating ‘Cephas’ to pebble is a bit of a stretch even for protestants 😂

The rock is Peter upon whom the Church was built. I understand you disagree, but who’s to say which interpretation is right? 😜

freeborn | ἐλεύθερος | 8r0gwg 2mo ago 💬 1

The point is that Jesus used a word _other than_ 'Cephus' when he described what he would build his church on -- which is the point at issue. He didn't say "and on YOU, Peter" and he didn't even say "you are Cephus and on this Cephus I will build..." he used a different word altogether for a reason.

But you're right. This has all been argued before. And until we can agree on the question of sola scriptura -- on what is the final authority -- we'll just continue going around and around...me pointing to the Scriptures and you pointing to the Magisterium... 😂 s'all good brother. We can agree on the Apostles' and the Nicene, etc. and that's cool with me. (For now!! LOL) 🤙

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

DRE 2mo ago 💬 1

What word did he used? And how do you know this? Or are you assuming he used another word?

We don’t disagree that Scripture is an infallible rule of Faith. We just disagree on who has the final word on what Scripture says.

The magisterium is of course pointing to Scripture when it defines it. I just humbly acknowledge they have a higher authority than me to interpret Scripture.

freeborn | ἐλεύθερος | 8r0gwg 2mo ago 💬 2

OK, my memory did not serve me. I'm looking at the Greek behind the text on [BLB](https://blb.sc/002cNF). It was **not** two completely different words (my apologies), but two variations of the same word: "Petros" (masculine, "rock," referring to Peter) and "petra" (feminine, "cliff" or "boulder" - referring to himself, or to the gospel message itself). I do notice, however, in support of your argument, that all the "thees" and "thous" in 16-19...are in the singular form. That's worth thinking about...

I think your second paragraph is spot on, and that's exactly the issue.

freeborn | ἐλεύθερος | 8r0gwg 2mo ago 💬 1

As a case study...to whom or to what was Jesus referring with the word "petra" in this verse? To himself, or to Peter (or to Peter's confession)?

Can we look anywhere else in Scripture for support for or against either interpretation? Is there anywhere else in Scripture that is more clear, that could help us interpret this less clear (or at least, debated) passage?

The answer is yes:

- Isaiah 28:16 refers to Christ as "a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation"

- Psalm 118:22 refers to Christ as "the stone that the builders rejected [which] has become the chief cornerstone"

- Isaiah 8:14 refers to Christ as "a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel"

- 1 Peter 2:4-8 (Peter himself!) refers to Christ as "a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious" (obviously referring to Isaiah 28 Psalm 119

- Ephesians 2:20 refers to "Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone"

- Acts 4:11 (Peter) quotes Psalm 118 referring to Christ

- Matthew 21:42-44 / Mark 12:10-11 / Luke 20:17-18 - Jesus quotes Psalm 118 referring to himself

- Romans 9:32-33 Paul quotes Isaiah 28:16 and 8:14 identifying Christ as the "stone of stumbling"

- 1 Cor. 13:11 says of Christ, "For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ"

- 1 Corinthians 10:4 - "and the Rock was Christ"

Letting Scripture interpret Scripture regarding this debated verse, it seems the evidence is overwhelming: Christ was referring to himself, not to Peter, with the word "petra." And I, for one, don't need anyone to give their stamp of approval on this interpretation--though it does provide me with a measure of assurance that so many others have interpreted it this way too.

DRE 2mo ago

when Jesus says,

“You are ‘Cephas’, and on this rock I will build My Church,”

He isn’t speaking Greek, He’s speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, the word He uses is Kepha, which means rock. So His original words were:

“You are Kepha, and on this Kepha I will build My Church.”

Unlike Greek, Aramaic makes no distinction between petros (small stone) and petra (large rock). That distinction only appears later in Greek translation, where grammar required the masculine form Petros for Peter’s name.

In other words, Jesus didn’t call Peter a “pebble.” He called him the rock, the same word in both clauses, on which His Church would be built. Any supposed ambiguity arises only from translation, not from what Jesus actually said.

This understanding is entirely consistent with what the earliest Christians believed. But under Sola Scriptura, the interpretation of Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of the Apostle John, ends up carrying no more weight than Bob from the post office.

TheDarrenator 2mo ago

If Christ was the "rock" of Matthew 16, why did he change Simon's name to Rock? What sense would that make? What would be the point?