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People don't care about that, they create an image of it in their mind.

And it's a man and looks like that.

This note is not about art or the Bible :).

It appeared to me you were trying to compare God of the bible to Roman god of Jupiter because the artwork looks identical.

I was trying to say God created man. It’s super unlikely God looks identical to a man. God created the universe, space and time as well.

Jesus was the son of God we don’t know what he looks like either we can guess he looked jewish with tanned darkish skin tone. But nobody knows.

It’s why I personally am not a fan of the Catholicism because they worship idols of Mary and pictures of white Jesus. As it’s idolatry.

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Discussion

bitcoinaz 2y ago

I understand all that. Relax, don't get on zealot mode :). Doesn't matter what you or the Bible want, believers picture it in their minds. Michelangelo saw it like that.

The note is about that, how belivers imagined their looks.

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

Point I am making artists can imagine what they wish.

Doesn’t mean it’s what god looked like.

If I was going to visualise the Most High.

I would probably depict God as old wise strong man with white beard. As God of the bible is characterised his wisdom and strength.

bitcoinaz 2y ago

Exactly, even you do it 🫂 . Bible or priests views on its looks are irrelevant when you're alone wondering in your mind...

And that's how most view it, like you.

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

I said “if” I had to.

No need to put words in my mouth.

bitcoinaz 2y ago

The "if" already happened, last time just now :).

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

I don’t worship an image though.

I pray and worship the Most High. I don’t need images. I just need my consciousness.

So nope.

the-word 2y ago

Good point, I was thinking about this idea yesterday. How a lot of catholics I know worship Idols and Saints and Images.

God is Spirit he doesn’t have a human body.

Jesus is the Son of God, he is also God because he is one with the father and he indeed came in the flesh.

There is no contradiction here. Although that’s what it would seem like to someone who doesn’t know Christ.

Most Catholics I know also don’t read the Bible, they are just defending their religion the name “Catholic”.

Same thing with some “Christians”, they don’t read the word, just claim to be Christian.

No surprise here, the Bible mentions that “Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord,’ will entre the kingdom of heaven.

𝔽𝕒𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕣 ℕ𝕚𝕔𝕜 𝔹𝕝𝕒𝕙𝕒 2y ago

As a "fan of the Catholicism" I have never once worshipped any of these things, encouraged people to worship these things, nor confused a representation of a spiritual being with the reality.

As a pastor of a black Catholic church I regularly saw images of a black Jesus and have seen many other representations in other ethnic traditions.

God is pure spirit and doesn't look like anyone, as any sacred artist would affirm.

I'm not trying to dunk on you or deny that perhaps individuals get these relationships wrong sometimes, but to remind you that things really are different from the inside, when one is living them, rather than critiquing them as a third party observer.

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

Well said.

Just from my personal experience as a someone who has never attended associated myself with any church. The strict rituals the catholics follow like light candles, the fact you select a Pope and put him on pedastool, all the weird demonic artwork inside the Vatican is one of the reasons I was very skeptical of religion and the bible as a whole.

It wasn’t until I decided to read the Word of God myself I saw the beauty and realise the Holy Bible had the power to change our lives.

Not here to attack catholicism but what is this?

Spencer 2y ago

Good question. An excellent representation of certain things in the modern Church that scandalize people of good-will in my opinion. But I think it’s ‘suppose’ to be a depiction of the resurrection of Christ though also representing the anguish of modern man under the threat of nuclear war. Sure looks weird though. Sculpted in the 70s.

Re: scandal… I always recall how scandalous the apostles were and yet post receiving the Holy-Ghost they were saints! Look to the saints. They reflect the Word of God lived day-to-day.

𝔽𝕒𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕣 ℕ𝕚𝕔𝕜 𝔹𝕝𝕒𝕙𝕒 2y ago

"It wasn’t until I decided to read the Word of God myself I saw the beauty and realise the Holy Bible had the power to change our lives."

I can get behind that 👌

As to the rituals, you get to understand them more as you live them... But they have much more to do with the Word of God than may appear. The lives of practicing Catholics are steeped in Scripture, as is our most precious prayer, the Mass. I highly recommend Scott Hahn's "The Lamb's Supper" if you want to learn more about this!

As to the art, I find it sickening just as you do. It is the work of churchmen who have lost the taste for beauty and mystery and have become fascinated with themselves instead. Much of the 20th century was a time in which leaders lost common sense and betrayed God and those they were called to lead. The marks of shame are too many to count.

We are left holding the bag. We ask God for mercy on their behalf, and ours.

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

Thanks will take a look at that prayer. Bless you!

Spencer 2y ago

We don’t worship pictures/statues/saints my friend. Worship to us is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I.e. Christ’s sacrifice of Himself to God the Father on Calvary prefigured by the sacrifice of lambs at Passover and all of the Old Covenant Temple sacrifices. That’s why we have priests bc only priests offer sacrifice, again see Old Covenant.

This is ONLY for God…worship.

Prayer is different. Think old English term…”I pray thee.” To implore, to ask, simply speak to. Can be to the Holy Trinity or in asking aid of the royal court of Heaven I.e. the saints, Our Lady (see Queen Mother of the Old Testament Kings). They are our friends who preceded us in the Faith and are alive and see Almighty God face to face.

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

Where does it say in the scripture that we need priests to talk to god for us?

Spencer 2y ago

Matt, again, see above. Prayer and Sacrifice are different in traditional Christian understanding. Anyone can pray but only those men set apart as priests can offer sacrifice. See literally the entire Old Testament.

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

I literally am asking because I do not know where it is in Old Testament.

Spencer 2y ago

Ok. Just a couple for example. 2 Chron 19:11.

Malachi 2:7.

But further, I’d recommend challenging the premise that “Everything we need to know about Christianity must come from the Bible.”

It is self referential. Circular. A premise that is not attested to by Sacred Scripture itself.

Whose Bible? The Jews? Even in Christ’s time they fought over the cannon. Various Christian sects? We don’t have the Letters of Clement, Gospel of Peter, Shepherd of Hermas in the Bible. But says who?

The Church, the successors of the Apostles gave us the Sacred Scriptures and the Faith wholly. It took hundreds of years to clarify but that’s how it happened. Yet I t was always there in the beginning. In seed form. A mustard seed as Our Lord tells it. The Gospel delivered to the Saints, once for all.

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

Thanks. I like these discussions. It helps get closer to the truth. I need to do more reading research.

But personally I am of the belief to take every single word of the bible to be true. I find dogmatic teachers are the reason so many have turned away from the faith.

Spencer 2y ago

Agreed. Every word of Sacred Scripture is true.

Dogma is a 4-letter word these days but essentially means what we’ve realized to be true about the Faith from the beginning - divinely given. Gives us sure rock (petros/kepha Matt 16:18) to stand on. Though, even clergy are frequently wolves in sheep’s clothing so we must be wary. The tares with with wheat as Jesus said. Hence I am very sympathetic to what others see as dictates spouted from men of the cloth that smell to high heaven - it happens a lot and saddens me because eternal souls are lost by it. Cling to the Faith of our Fathers/Apostles/Scripture.

A good primer for you may be “The Case for Catholicism” by Trent Horn.

Godspeed, brother!

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

Amen brother! 🙏🏻

God is good. Praise the most high.

Gn! I need some sleep 😴.

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

I will add to my reading list. Thanks for the suggestion.