After the Nostr/Plebstr zap fiasco, Apple has found a new low. Recommending people to use cash is "clearly reckless", as authors of peer to peer Bitcoin trading app nostr:npub1mftv2j67vayavkks8rqev3u8jjhefe86tf80msstfxvpunk9vmps6prkl3 have found out.
https://blog.vexl.it/apple-using-cash-is-clearly-reckless-77e2a519a3bc
PWA is the way:
https://juraj.bednar.io/en/blog-en/2023/08/01/goodbye-app-lets-move-from-the-centralized-stores/
looks like pwa has not phone contacs access :(
Lol, this what you get when you try to please the lords. Developing iOS app is waste of time. Interacting with Apple is waste of time.
Asking for permission is seeking for denial.
nostr:npub1ve0xv7ktrf0r6cqu4cpm7q4e7yz4glq8qpn6kpnrc4nx58w2cxesqjxs9t I am sorry, but there's no other Mac for you. Do not want to spend a penny on those shitters!
nostr:note1ls464gxhzlry4fqqj5wz694v0nd34yhl4r439w7h7eneawek4wnsc7g46p
How can Apple be so fucking stupid?!?! They are saying exchanging currencies (cash) is reckless and also almost illegal!!!
nostr:note1ls464gxhzlry4fqqj5wz694v0nd34yhl4r439w7h7eneawek4wnsc7g46p crApple, wtf?
Apple will allow sideloading by the end of the year (they claim), or the latest by March 2024. It's an eu requirement.
"Allow" is the problem here. You are not sovereign, you are a subordinate who has to ask permission (and because they said no, you have to find a bigger guy with the gun and ask him in this case, pretty please, point the gun on Apple and force him to give my my shiny thingy). It's radiculous.
I am still shocked why so many Bitcoin/Freedom/Cypherpunk people still praise this closed dystopian rent-seeking "monopoly" (I know, it's not true monopoly by Mises standards). It's shit. Admit it.
- You are an app that is powered by network effects (n^2, see Andrew Chan's Cold Start problem - really good book)
- Half of your users use Apple, regardless of what you believe is a good platform.
- n_1 = n/2 means your network effect is one fourth, which since you have a cold start problem makes the app unusable and people leave
So regardless of the wishes and opinions, unfortunately it is not feasible to ignore Apple users.
https://juraj.bednar.io/en/blog-en/2023/08/01/goodbye-app-lets-move-from-the-centralized-stores/
Apple just cancels you. You won't have Apple users anyway. (You looses time and money for putting effort to develop the app and make it approved.)
This simply renders your cold start calculations irrelevant.
100% agree
Just take a look at Bisq, totally sovereign, don’t need any Apple shit and do its mission
Yet they provide a completely different service - mainly using traced fiat networks. Also there's no social graph, which has its own problems and very low liquidity. Also, you can't use it to buy your first btc, because you need btc for deposit.
I like that it exists, although the inner workings make it not usable for many people. Vexl is paradoxically more inclusive even without Apple.
That is a very narrow look. Apple tries to cancel you and then you react. Make a PWA, use sideloading, or even comply and yet make it work. See Damus, Plebstr, or even my little app. We're still here and so are our users.
We are all playing a dynamic game.
This is reality. Nostriches got cancelled or bend the knee. Vexl got cancelled.
I am not saying don't do web PWA whatever. I am saying do it first. Don't even bother with Apple. Is waste of time for any Bitcoin app.
Sure, being decentralized and not willing to play Apple or Google game lowers adoption.
But, in any way, being a part of non-KYC world is the choice. Now, Vexl faces the same choice.
For us, without social network, Bisq is a blessing. 🙂
Everyone has a social network.
Apple will allow sideloading by the end of the year (they claim), or the latest by March 2024. It's an eu requirement.
hodlhodl seems to me like an interesting alternative
Alternative is running Vexl anyway.
Hodlhodl is nice, but solves a different problem. Vexl has social graph and in person anonymous transactions. Hodlhodl is online fiat tx with strangers, which I don't recommend.
yes, the apps are different. you know nothing about your counterparty in hodlhodl, but honestly I tried to vexl through contact coming from vexl, neither here I knew anything about the person..
the similarity is you can find there offers to exchange btc in person as well
You are supposed to ask the common contact.
Is the in person network effect in hodlhodl large enough? In vexl I see 17 sell and 13 buy offers in my city through contacts I know for in person trading for cash. That's pretty good.
Good for those having contacts in the comunnity. Hard for newcomers.
Good for those living in big cities, hard for those living out of them.
It is not black or white
Social network reached beyond city boundaries. The network does not have to be within btc community. The common party can be a classmate from high school who has nothing to do with btc.
And you can always post your offer if you don't see any.
These articles explain how to make use of the mathematical property of social graphs called five degrees of separation:
En: https://juraj.bednar.io/en/blog-en/2022/03/14/how-to-create-your-own-crypto-trading-group/
Sk: https://juraj.bednar.io/blog/2022/03/14/ako-si-vytvorit-vlastnu-vekslovaciu-skupinu/
Just delete “cash” from the app, and insert an option “another payment type as per mutual agreement”
It allows different payment methods, but electronic fiat payments are reckless, so it does not recommend them.
Juraj is right! Shame on you Apple:(
nostr:note1ls464gxhzlry4fqqj5wz694v0nd34yhl4r439w7h7eneawek4wnsc7g46p
The question is how the side loading will look like. I expect a solution in the style of Chytré Horákyně (the name of a character from a classic Czech fairy tale). Side loading will exist, but there will be a strong reason not to use it.
Very possible
