Darknet exchanges are a subcategory of darknet markets
And uniswap is a very big one
Everything is good
Some DNMs do use lightning
> it's managing liquidity
That seems to have become very easy too
Lots of people sell channels these days, that's a great l, easy way to get inbound capacity without locking up any of your generational wealth anywhere
And once you have inbound capacity, getting outbound capacity is as simple as hitting Receive
Tor leaks info too, such as volume of requests
That can be used for fingerprinting services and is a good reason to regularly switch to a new circuit
Also, running a lightning node is easy too
> Lightning is not an option for privacy in general
Can you give an example of its unavailability? It seems to be usable at most places that handle cryptocurrency
> Monero...[is] much easier and offers more privacy
Monero offers less privacy than LN
One of the things that makes LN uniquely suited to privacy-conscious monetary use cases is that your private keys are not cryptographically attached to your transaction history. Whereas on monero, they are, and you can't delete them later without risking loss of funds.
Maybe, but the way they found the admin of Incognito Market is not something you can fix by using your own monero node. They used timing analysis: they observed four instances where he acquired monero via a KYC-free exchange, withdrew it to a self-custodial wallet (perhaps a node? it wouldn't make a difference to the trace), and then, minutes later, sent a similar amount to a KYC'd exchange. It is unlikely that the same amount would be withdrawn from exchange A and sent to exchange B -- each within short time frames -- unless the same person did it each time. So that is how they nabbed him.
This particular tracing method would also work against the lightning network.
Lessons learned to hide the flow of your money better: (1) if you have to forward money from your self-custodial node to another destination, wait some time before doing it so that you are less susceptible to timing analysis (2) do not use KYC'd exchanges at all (3) avoid getting into situations where you need to forward everything received into your self-custodial wallet to the same destination -- e.g. use multiple no-KYC exchanges (4) split up your money so that the amounts you send differ significantly from the amounts you receive. The perp failed in this regard by sending to a KYC'd exchange the exact same amount he received from the no-KYC exchange, which he did once; the other three times, he sent amounts that were a bit lower or higher than the amounts he received, so for better privacy it would be wise to make them differ even more.
I don't think I fudded, I just asked a question
Looking for data, not announcing a conclusion
> Robosats neither has a similar threat model
What is the difference between their threat models?
> trade volume
How do you know any DNM's trade volumes? Robosats publishes theirs -- do any DNMs publish theirs?
> or architecture
What is different about the architecture?
They say they traced *something* financial
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I agree, there are lots of ways to get data
One way is: send monero to the target and then watch the blockchain to see what happens to it next
That's how they caught the Columbian monero user and the Finnish monero user
Why not use the same trick again?
Robosats has a similar threat model as Silk Road and its successors
The threat is "if we are caught running this illegal exchange, we go to jail for a long time"
They rely on LN's privacy properties to keep them from being discovered and so far it is working well for them
Notice that the XMR marketplace went down, not the LN one
Looks plausible! They found them "by tracing financial flows"
> The takedown follows years of intensive investigative work to map the platform’s technical architecture and identify the individuals behind it. By tracing financial flows, analysing digital forensic evidence, and working closely with partners on the ground, authorities were able to deliver a decisive blow to one of the most prolific drug markets on the dark web.
I'm just wondering how they caught the bad guys
Is that so wrong for me to do?
Drugs are bad for you bro
I only use DNMs to trade bitcoin
But if that's what you're looking for, I recommend Robosats and Bisq
Narrator: unable to point out anything wrong with the post he criticized, the challenger resorted to posting self portraits
The largest monero-only DNM went down today
"The investigators identified the suspects...using intelligence collected following takedowns of [other] dark web markets, including Nemesis, Bohemia, Tor2Door, and Kingdom Market"
I wonder if they traced XMR?
> you have no problem presenting LN receiver privacy as if the technical best-case scenario was the default
I don't think I do that. I'm just saying LN offers better privacy tools than monero. I don't think most users care about that or use it that way. It's a bit like if yall claimed that jet skis are faster than full sized boats, and I replied, "No they aren't, look at the top speed of a standard boat, it's way higher." And then you reply "But most boat-users go slow on them." So? That has nothing to do with which one is faster. Most people don't care to use max speed and most people don't care to use max stealth. But if you are interested in that (which I recommend), the better option is LN.
also, even if you aren't using proxies, bolt11 invoices still reveal less information about the recipient than monero addresses
this is partly because the sender cannot detect whether or not you are using a proxy
I don't "assume" anyone uses proxies
I recommend it, try to make it easier, and talk about its privacy advantages
But I don't assume anyone does it
what you are missing is that he should not know how much of that money the recipient receives
imagine you are buying a new music album for $10
you type in $10 and hit send, and the merchant gives you your product
but what if the merchant *didn't* receive $10? What if $5 of it went to the merchant, $3 of it went to the original artist, and $2 of it went to the producer? That's none of the sender's business and the sender shouldn't know about it
He should just know "I sent $10 and I got my product"
He should not know how much the recipient receives
On monero, he does, and that is bad for recipient privacy because it exposes information about the recipient that the sender should not know
Lightning is better: the sender does not know how much the recipient receives, because lightning allows us to atomically split a payment among different people
Monero partially encrypts the amount because it leaves the fee unencrypted